THE DECCA DILEMMA (re-up)

[Modboy66]

This is outstanding, Lord Reith! Thank you for this. I love the Pete-less Sure To Fall and would love to hear all of it as a trio. Sorry, Pete fans. I'd also love to hear them with Ringo - from Star Club or BBC recordings, and there's plenty of Coasters, etc. recordings one could pull good drums from and make them full band. As for the originals, there's some cool cover versions out there one could pull good drums from - The Fourmost's Hello Little Girl is really great for one. Just for shits and giggles, to have a somewhat more musical version to listen to. Very cool!

[Kwai Chang]

He simply wasn't a great drummer, and Ringo was. We are lucky to have the Decca tapes to prove that cleary. And to show that the others weren't quite ready yet either.

Decca Tapes?
I have plenty of hunches about Peter Best and I am sad to say that he was shorted on his net contribution to history. The Beatles HAD to fail DECCA! Pete was history's reason for their rejection. File Under: Bad Musicianship. For all I know, Peter Best might have been more prolific than Stuart Sutcliffe. It is only recently that I have seen and read things of Sutcliffe's that have been left out of the generic version that warrants explanation. Klaus, Astrid, Stuart and finally Pete!<-----THERE are your other 4 Beatles! 8 TOTAL! But why hasn't this ever been an issue? Because The Famous four don't want you to know that FAME was easy because of the four not-famous Beatles...and, if the other four become more than footnotes...the greatness would have to be shared if not displaced! I do understand what happened. Peter Best coped with the most. I can't believe he actually survived being slapped by the hands of time and hearing about the rudimentary clumsiness that nearly ruined everything...for 60 years! Man...
this isn't anything about music. The four famous Beatles ALL used the four non-famous to overcome the biggest obstacles. At least it wasn't quicksand!
It was as if there was a final hurdle that was too high. To get over it meant one made it and one didn't. Four up...four down. Klaus gave up Astrid without ever missing a beat! He stepped aside! Astrid noticed Stu for ALL of the reasons John AND Paul were afraid to reveal! Stu was the real deal and didn't care. He was a meteor. He might have known. He might have loved planets! J+P didn't want the world to know about Stuart. Astrid told everyone! Including Stuart! Peter Best was undoubtedly the first person to see that they believed in themselves(JPG). He knew then, that he would be helping Ringo over that wall...and that he wouldn't have anyone to help him over it! That's not vague! That's exactly what happened! If Paul and Ringo decide to complete this equation...they will be greater than Pythagoras and greater than tugboats! If Liverpool is the capitol of Ireland, then the wall I spoke of is called Sacrifice!
I'll say it again!
If needed!
KC

Thank you, Peter Best!

[Choking Smoker]

He simply wasn't a great drummer, and Ringo was. We are lucky to have the Decca tapes to prove that cleary. And to show that the others weren't quite ready yet either.

Decca Tapes?
I have plenty of hunches about Peter Best and I am sad to say that he was shorted on his net contribution to history. The Beatles HAD to fail DECCA! Pete was history's reason for their rejection. File Under: Bad Musicianship. For all I know, Peter Best might have been more prolific than Stuart Sutcliffe. It is only recently that I have seen and read things of Sutcliffe's that have been left out of the generic version that warrants explanation. Klaus, Astrid, Stuart and finally Pete!<-----THERE are your other 4 Beatles! 8 TOTAL! But why hasn't this ever been an issue? Because The Famous four don't want you to know that FAME was easy because of the four not-famous Beatles...and, if the other four become more than footnotes...the greatness would have to be shared if not displaced! I do understand what happened. Peter Best coped with the most. I can't believe he actually survived being slapped by the hands of time and hearing about the rudimentary clumsiness that nearly ruined everything...for 60 years! Man...
this isn't anything about music. The four famous Beatles ALL used the four non-famous to overcome the biggest obstacles. At least it wasn't quicksand!
It was as if there was a final hurdle that was too high. To get over it meant one made it and one didn't. Four up...four down. Klaus gave up Astrid without ever missing a beat! He stepped aside! Astrid noticed Stu for ALL of the reasons John AND Paul were afraid to reveal! Stu was the real deal and didn't care. He was a meteor. He might have known. He might have loved planets! J+P didn't want the world to know about Stuart. Astrid told everyone! Including Stuart! Peter Best was undoubtedly the first person to see that they believed in themselves(JPG). He knew then, that he would be helping Ringo over that wall...and that he wouldn't have anyone to help him over it! That's not vague! That's exactly what happened! If Paul and Ringo decide to complete this equation...they will be greater than Pythagoras and greater than tugboats! If Liverpool is the capitol of Ireland, then the wall I spoke of is called Sacrifice!
I'll say it again!
If needed!
KC

Thank you, Peter Best!

Actually I do agree that Pete has been 'short changed' I made this post on the Steve Hoffman quite recently in response to a thread about what was Pete's appeal to The Beatles?

The answer has been well covered already and I agree, he was the right age and look and had a drum kit when they needed such a person FAST. Within a few months of him joining they'd done their apprenticeship in Hamburg and become impactful and charismatic as a band. It must have been an incredible time for them after their return from that first visit to Hamburg, all of a sudden they were popular and in demand. I have no doubt that they were aware of Pete's limitations as a drummer from very early on but why break what to them must have seemed like a winning formula?

The early Beatles forged their reputation locally as a band and I'm pretty certain that a lot of it was image, The Fabulous Beatles, The Dynamic Beatles, The Sensational Beatles as they were promoted locally. I think what come over was their power, when early fans describe them it's usually in terms of their image, personalities and power rather than musicianship. I could understand frustration building about Pete's limitations within the band and it probably took something as important as a good recording contract to force them to take action about their frustrations. That EMI recording contract would also make it a LOT more appealing for other drummers to drop whatever they were doing and join them.

I do think Pete should have been given more recognition by The Beatles than he has been and I am also very happy that they replaced him, it's not a contradiction to respect his time with them as part of a jigsaw puzzle that achieved great things at that time locally and also be glad that he was replaced. It does frustrate me the way they ignored him while telling their story in the Anthology videos. I think it was wrong not to interview him, after all he had an insider perspective on those two, important formative years. For me this was highlighted when it emerged that Jimmy Nichol's son was part of the Anthology production crew and when Paul found out he asked him if his dad would be willing to be interviewed for the project? So they thought an interview with a drummer who was with them for little over a week was relevant to the project but not the drummer who was with them for two, very important years of their history?

[Lord Reith]

The thing is that what happened to Pete in 1962 was not that big a deal. It's not like they had just released She Loves You and THEN ditched him. He went before they had even made a record! In that sense it was no different to any other unknown band where the membership changes. Drummers and guitarists are sacked all the time in bar bands and it's no big deal. It's all very well for him to say "But they were The Beatles!" but the thing is no more than a few thousand people had ever heard of them at that point. They were basically unknown. At that point in time, fame or even success was by no means guarranteed. Many, many things could have gone wrong and we wouldn't be talking here now. Nothing is certain, and if Pete had stayed they might well have sunk without trace after Love Me Do.

If Pete had just accepted the fact and moved on it would have been much better for him. But instead, he portrayed himself as the guy who was wronged and thus embarked on The Longest Sulk In History. First came radio and tv appearances in the mid 60s, then the sour grapes in the 1968 biography, then the revived public profile when the Decca tapes were semi-legitimately released, then the Pete Best Band and a career built on grievance.

One listen to that Sure To Fall drumming track tells you all you need to know. I don't know if he got better later, but in 1962 no sane A&R guy would have taken on a drummer like that. His tempo is all over the place and he gives the impression of not knowing what he's doing. He had to go, and just because a few hundred fans in Liverpool liked him was not enough reason to essentially wreck The Beatles chances of success.

[Lord Reith]

This is outstanding, Lord Reith! Thank you for this. I love the Pete-less Sure To Fall and would love to hear all of it as a trio. Sorry, Pete fans. I'd also love to hear them with Ringo - from Star Club or BBC recordings, and there's plenty of Coasters, etc. recordings one could pull good drums from and make them full band. As for the originals, there's some cool cover versions out there one could pull good drums from - The Fourmost's Hello Little Girl is really great for one. Just for shits and giggles, to have a somewhat more musical version to listen to. Very cool!

Thanks and glad you liked it. Really though, the other Beatles aren't that great here either. John and Paul are very unformed vocally. In fact they are nearly unrecognisable. John is so hesitant, like he's out of breath or something. Paul's bass playing is good but bass players are ten a penny. Only George sounds pretty much the same as he would later. But even then he is singing beyond his range and straining and going out of tune. So the whole thing is a bit of a car wreck. Hopefully though I at least made it sound like a decent recording, whereas the original is just a cacophony.

[BTL1210]

AWESOME work M'Lord .... Thank you .....

[tymime]

I met Pete once and got his autograph in a book about the Casbah Club many years ago at a Beatles convention. My mom told him that she had always wondered and worried about him, and he looked very touched. I get the feeling he's never really gotten over the whole thing.
I also got Tony Sheridan's autograph that same day.

[Choking Smoker]

The thing is that what happened to Pete in 1962 was not that big a deal. It's not like they had just released She Loves You and THEN ditched him. He went before they had even made a record! In that sense it was no different to any other unknown band where the membership changes. Drummers and guitarists are sacked all the time in bar bands and it's no big deal. It's all very well for him to say "But they were The Beatles!" but the thing is no more than a few thousand people had ever heard of them at that point. They were basically unknown. At that point in time, fame or even success was by no means guarranteed. Many, many things could have gone wrong and we wouldn't be talking here now. Nothing is certain, and if Pete had stayed they might well have sunk without trace after Love Me Do.

If Pete had just accepted the fact and moved on it would have been much better for him. But instead, he portrayed himself as the guy who was wronged and thus embarked on The Longest Sulk In History. First came radio and tv appearances in the mid 60s, then the sour grapes in the 1968 biography, then the revived public profile when the Decca tapes were semi-legitimately released, then the Pete Best Band and a career built on grievance.

One listen to that Sure To Fall drumming track tells you all you need to know. I don't know if he got better later, but in 1962 no sane A&R guy would have taken on a drummer like that. His tempo is all over the place and he gives the impression of not knowing what he's doing. He had to go, and just because a few hundred fans in Liverpool liked him was not enough reason to essentially wreck The Beatles chances of success.

Yes, he was a lousy drummer and I'm glad that they replaced him.

[Modboy66]

This is outstanding, Lord Reith! Thank you for this. I love the Pete-less Sure To Fall and would love to hear all of it as a trio. Sorry, Pete fans. I'd also love to hear them with Ringo - from Star Club or BBC recordings, and there's plenty of Coasters, etc. recordings one could pull good drums from and make them full band. As for the originals, there's some cool cover versions out there one could pull good drums from - The Fourmost's Hello Little Girl is really great for one. Just for shits and giggles, to have a somewhat more musical version to listen to. Very cool!

Thanks and glad you liked it. Really though, the other Beatles aren't that great here either. John and Paul are very unformed vocally. In fact they are nearly unrecognisable. John is so hesitant, like he's out of breath or something. Paul's bass playing is good but bass players are ten a penny. Only George sounds pretty much the same as he would later. But even then he is singing beyond his range and straining and going out of tune. So the whole thing is a bit of a car wreck. Hopefully though I at least made it sound like a decent recording, whereas the original is just a cacophony.

I hear you. But the 3 of them on that Sure To Fall thing you isolated sound together and it swings a lot more than with the drums, to me. They sound like 3 guys who've been playing together for years aping Carl Perkins, Elvis, etc. but doing it well, bit rough round the edges, and that's rock and roll. Compared to other Merseybeat fare at the time it's pretty sweet but tough - you can hear the germ George Martin must have heard. With the drums, as you said, cacophony

[20YearsAgo]

Could someone please re-up Vol 2 of this? Earlier tonight I was cleaning out my files and I accidentally deleted it. Oof!