The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

[CultTVman]

I can just get to 17000 but it's very faint. But what most people think of as "treble" is actually down around 7000-8000. All the frequencies from 10,000 to 20,000 are contained in just one octave - it's the same range as from 1000 to 2000 hz, or 100hz to 200hz. It's a very small range and only contains the "shimmer" in music. I can't even imagine what the octave above that (from 20,000 to 40,000hz) is supposed to sound like. If I had a dog, I would ask him!

I've been trying to explain this for years, and you have said it so succinctly.

My own hearing starts cutting out at 13khz, and I have a slight dip in the midrange.

One other thing that people fail to consider is that as you get older and your hearing starts to diminish, your brain will try and fill in the blanks - the sounds you are missing. You may not even know what your are missing or that you are missing anything. Its similar to the phenomenon where people think they are hearing voices, but it is your brain trying to decode the background noise you hear and tries to make sense of it. Then there is tinnitus, where your brain is "hearing" constant noise.

The quest for the perfect masters is complex, and whether you can hear that much difference is even more complex.

[alphabeatles]

I must add I tested my ears with headphones with fat over-the-ear pads, so if they were closer to my ears I might have done better

Was just a quickie.

What's that? (smiles and nods)

[Lord Reith]

I've been trying to explain this for years, and you have said it so succinctly.

Nah, I was just rambling as usual!

One other thing that people fail to consider is that as you get older and your hearing starts to diminish, your brain will try and fill in the blanks - the sounds you are missing. You may not even know what your are missing or that you are missing anything. Its similar to the phenomenon where people think they are hearing voices, but it is your brain trying to decode the background noise you hear and tries to make sense of it. Then there is tinnitus, where your brain is "hearing" constant noise.

I have some small tinnitus unfortunately, but I can't say it ever bothers me even at night when it is dead quiet. I know it can drive some people to distraction. I guess I've learned to tune it out. Our modern world is toxic to our hearing though, that's for sure. Your hearing is under constant assault whether it be from industrial noise or earbuds or traffic or one of a hundred other things. Our ears didn't evolve to deal with all that. The loudest sound a caveman would have heard would have been a clap of thunder, and then only rarely.

When I was a kid there was something people talked about a lot called "noise pollution". Anybody else remember that? They sure as hell gave up on that. Never hear it mentioned at all these days. The world is surely a hell of a lot noisier than it used to be when I was young, but now nobody even makes any attempt to do anything about it. People need quiet. It's as precious as oxygen. But everywhere you go, it seems everybody is trying to make as much noise as possible.

The quest for the perfect masters is complex, and whether you can hear that much difference is even more complex.

That's for sure.

[greyratfromBZ]

Hmm - i can't seem to hear tones over 4khz from that testing site. I guess my wife is right when she says "you must be losing your hearing" when she has to repeat herself. I also have tinnitus - my hearing is a mess.

Just a Correction: I tried that hearing test again from my normal PC with PC speakers - instead of my laptop and could hear well past 10khz. So, i'm not as deaf as I originally suspected.

[ringo9]

I have tinnitus too oon my left ear. It won't go away. I drew me nuts at first but well I won't give up listening to music because of that. I can hear the tone Lord Reith mentionts but I had to turn up the volume on the tone generator page as there are cars passing by and kids shouting. I remember hearing the dog whistle in ADITL but I'm not sure I can now. Will try it later.

Lord Reith could you try foobar2000 to do the downsampling and report on its results if I'm not asking too much? I had downsampled my collection to 16 44.1 but now that you recommend 16 488 want to do it again for my flac player. Thanks a lot dor taking the time to teach us so many important things

[Lord Reith]

Foobar is a good app, so that'd do a good job.

Anyone concerned about their hearing should go have a proper hearing test. It's not expensive and you will get a much more useful result than the website. You could also ask the audiologist which frequencies you should be boosting for music playback so that it compensates for any deficiencies in your hearing.

[Lord Reith]

I have tinnitus too oon my left ear. It won't go away. I drew me nuts at first but well I won't give up listening to music because of that.

Have you had your ears syringed? Wax can cause tinnitus too when it presses against the eardrum. Seems odd you only have it in one ear.

Also there are phone apps that play sounds designed to mask tinnitus if you have trouble sleeping.

[ringo9]

[/quote]

Have you had your ears syringed? Wax can cause tinnitus too when it presses against the eardrum. Seems odd you only have it in one ear.

Also there are phone apps that play sounds designed to mask tinnitus if you have trouble sleeping.
[/quote]

Thanks a lot for your concern. Actually it was right after having my ear syringed that the tinnitus started (or I discovered it at leadt) a doctor told me it was impossible the syringe caused the tinnitus but I never used that method for ear wax afterwards. I had my hearing tested twice after that and doctor said it was good for my age which was conforting of course. Now, I treat it with medicine and once with that device that cleans with air. Honest I was shocked that I got it because I was never into rock concerts as I live far from Buenos Aires and traveling plus ticket costs were always beyond me. I used to play music loud it's true but never had biiiig speakers so... Anyway, had for like 6yrs now so it's not going away. I never had trouble spleeping. Hope we all get rid of it someday. Good to hear foobar is good for the job too!

[Lord Reith]

Compare the various Capitol mixes to see if that helps identify what this mix is. Based on my quick peek I suspect wide stereo is a "Capitol thing". And in at least one case a "Canadian thing" (Beatlemania).

I understand that stylus shape is important for catching all the grooviness of an LP.

As for hi-res, I recently decided to put a limit on my collection at 24/48 (both needledrops and hi-res digital) for various mostly practical reasons:

•Limitations of human hearing
•Limitations of vinyl sources
•Limitations of storage space (we all download like little piggies and it catches up with even the largest drives). I just recovered 200 gigs by downsampling all the hi-res (and supposed hi-res) stuff I collected over the years, and it still sounds fantastic
•Limitations of playback capability: My Mac can only play 24/96 at best. I have my iPod hooked up to my "iRoq" (either a 1972 Sherwood or 1989 Sony receiver with 12" 1970s Erath speakers, and in an apartment neither the neighbors nor my family members really want to hear that...). The iPod might even have its own sonic limits; I wasn't able to find a recent discussion quickly.

When I descended further into the bloodbath that is the 700-page thread on the 2012 vinyl remasters on Hoffman, I found some more interesting posts by Sean Magee as he desperately tried to counter allegations that he didn't know what he was talking about. The SX74 cutting head, which was used for the remasters, can only cut up to 25khz (not 24... he issued a correction). But its predecessor - the SX68 - could only cut up to 16khz.

Also interesting are some posts on Hydrogen Audio by a guy who used to cut a lot of records for RCA. He also used the SX68 and 74 but he says the cutter that had the widest frequency response of all was the Ortofon 731 which was specifically designed to cut quadrophonic lps, which used a pilot tone at 45khz. The Ortofon 731 could cut up to 30khz ion real time, and that was state of the art. To cut the quad lps, they had to cut at half speed so the pilot tone would be halved to 22.5khz.

So it's now looking as though even in the 1970s, the widest frequency response was only 30khz, and that only with a special cutter designed for quad lps.

I think if you're recording an orchestra live in 24/96 and then playing it back on digital high end equipment, you've got a good case for hirez because all the high frequencies and wide dynamic range are there. But it seems pretty unlikely this applies to vinyl lps.

[alphabeatles]

Thanks LR, and when we speak of hi-res we should always discuss the delivery method. It seems LPs, which according to some seem to have certain natural sonic benefits over digital options, cannot by their nature contain hi-res audio. So *maybe* ripping them at hi-res doesn't really offer anything over 16/44, or if it does, any benefit certainly stops way before the upper limits of hi-res.

I would propose that the purest means of delivery of true hi-res would be as a download option, which completely bypasses any type of physical media (other than playback equipment) between the master tape and your ears, with the inherent restrictions and colorizations of the sound by said media rendered irrelevant.