Harry And His Box Set (V1, 2, 7, 10, 12, 15, 14 update.)

[Spaniard in da Works]

You know what, I'm listening to this set while reviewing and reordering my "Beatles Tracks" folder, and this set renders not only the "Bootleg Recordings" thing obsolete (at least for the BBC tracks), but also the official BBC releases.

I mean, there's still a reason to listen to "Live at the BBC", which is the well-thought-out running order and setlist, but the "best of the rest" approach of On Air really isn't needed at all.

[Lord Reith]

the "best of the rest" approach of On Air really isn't needed at all.

Oh I actually liked that one a lot more! But it didn't sell very well. Not enough new songs I guess.

[dumbchops]

The truth about Harry and his box is that very pardon, often the parky walk through. Don’t we? Y’know what I mean?

[Lord Reith]

The truth about Harry and his box is that very pardon, often the parky walk through. Don’t we? Y’know what I mean?

No we don't, actually, Johnny!

[Gilbeatle]

Thanks again, Lord !!!

[Spaniard in da Works]

Apologies for the late response...

As time went on, they became big stars. They got more polished. They had more records to promote. The novelty of being on the BBC wore off. They got "professional." The whole vibe changed. By 1964 it feels a little more like an obligation to do these shows, and the set lists are less interesting. They aren't that band anymore that could play a million songs at the drop of a hat. The oldies mostly sound stale on Beatles for Sale, and by the Get Back sessions they mostly can't connect with that band anymore. We are lucky the Hamburg tapes and the BBC preserved it at all. It may be my favorite version of the Beatles. I'm Gonna Sit Right Down. Talk about fast!

Yeah, I wouldn't say the oldies on BFS sound stale but by that time they were moving towards a more folky C&W sound and the old songs just didn't fit their style anymore. On the other hand, when they played live and were in the zone like in Paris 65, they could churn out great rock and roll with the best of them. But the oldies on BFS were just added because they didn't have enough original songs and they don't really fit in as far as I'm concerned. Ideally an album with the best original songs from BFS and Help would have been better, but for many reasons that couldn't have happened.

I have alway said that the big difference between the cover versions in BFS as opposed to the first two albums is that in PPM and WTB they are mainly covering contemporary songs, while on BFS they are covering oldies. Most of those are not early sixties songs, they are 1956-58 songs which they could play in their sleep but hadn't probably played for months. They are what they were playing in Hamburg before they got seriously into the R&B / girl group stuff. In fact, given the kind of songs they played in 1962 in Liverpool, the Star Club tapes set list is like a throwback to 1961. And while they sound terrific with Ringo, I would give an arm to hear what they sounded like in a previous residence when they still gave a damn about Hamburg.

[Lord Reith]

I have alway said that the big difference between the cover versions in BFS as opposed to the first two albums is that in PPM and WTB they are mainly covering contemporary songs, while on BFS they are covering oldies. Most of those are not early sixties songs, they are 1956-58 songs which they could play in their sleep but hadn't probably played for months. They are what they were playing in Hamburg before they got seriously into the R&B / girl group stuff.

That's a great observation. I had not noticed that.

In fact, given the kind of songs they played in 1962 in Liverpool, the Star Club tapes set list is like a throwback to 1961. And while they sound terrific with Ringo, I would give an arm to hear what they sounded like in a previous residence when they still gave a damn about Hamburg.

I don't. We have plenty of tapes of them pre-Ringo and they're all no big deal. Their equipment was poor and with Paul's "Elvis" voice and Pete's monotonous drumming I think their gigs would have been big on atmosphere but short on Beatlesque quality. The people who saw them in December 1962 at the Star Club said there was a "night and day" difference once Ringo joined them.

The thing is, being a musician myself I can put two and two together and extrapolate and imagine pretty much what they sounded like at the Top Ten. But would it be recognisable as The Beatles to 99% of people? Possibly not.

[slane]

Apologies for the late response...

As time went on, they became big stars. They got more polished. They had more records to promote. The novelty of being on the BBC wore off. They got "professional." The whole vibe changed. By 1964 it feels a little more like an obligation to do these shows, and the set lists are less interesting. They aren't that band anymore that could play a million songs at the drop of a hat. The oldies mostly sound stale on Beatles for Sale, and by the Get Back sessions they mostly can't connect with that band anymore. We are lucky the Hamburg tapes and the BBC preserved it at all. It may be my favorite version of the Beatles. I'm Gonna Sit Right Down. Talk about fast!

Yeah, I wouldn't say the oldies on BFS sound stale but by that time they were moving towards a more folky C&W sound and the old songs just didn't fit their style anymore. On the other hand, when they played live and were in the zone like in Paris 65, they could churn out great rock and roll with the best of them. But the oldies on BFS were just added because they didn't have enough original songs and they don't really fit in as far as I'm concerned. Ideally an album with the best original songs from BFS and Help would have been better, but for many reasons that couldn't have happened.

I have alway said that the big difference between the cover versions in BFS as opposed to the first two albums is that in PPM and WTB they are mainly covering contemporary songs, while on BFS they are covering oldies. Most of those are not early sixties songs, they are 1956-58 songs which they could play in their sleep but hadn't probably played for months. They are what they were playing in Hamburg before they got seriously into the R&B / girl group stuff. In fact, given the kind of songs they played in 1962 in Liverpool, the Star Club tapes set list is like a throwback to 1961. And while they sound terrific with Ringo, I would give an arm to hear what they sounded like in a previous residence when they still gave a damn about Hamburg.

It's a pity that 10-inch albums weren't really a think anymore by 1964 - Beatles For Sale might have worked better in that format, with just the 8 originals 'undiluted' by the cover versions. Or maybe a double EP (3 years before MMT).

I think the BFS originals are their best and most consistent batch of originals (minority opinion, I know), right at the cutting edge of the upcoming folk-rock boom. But the covers on the record (though not bad) killed that sense of forward motion.

If AHDN had been released as originally planned (similar to the US soundtrack, according to UK music paper reports), then all of those June 1964 originals could have been on BFS...

[Spaniard in da Works]

That's a great observation. I had not noticed that.

And in retrospect, it's understandable that it was so. Late 1964 Beatles had LITERALLY no time to go to Nems to check the latest American releases any more.

The thing is, being a musician myself I can put two and two together and extrapolate and imagine pretty much what they sounded like at the Top Ten. But would it be recognisable as The Beatles to 99% of people? Possibly not.

I know, that's precisely the reason I'd like to know what It was like.
If you were, say, a fan of Robert Johnson, and heard that his records were acoustic Delta blues all the time only because that's what his label wanted him to record and that live he actually played a lot of pop and country backed with local musicians, wouldn't you be curious?

[JoeWadley]

That's a great observation. I had not noticed that.

And in retrospect, it's understandable that it was so. Late 1964 Beatles had LITERALLY no time to go to Nems to check the latest American releases any more.

The thing is, being a musician myself I can put two and two together and extrapolate and imagine pretty much what they sounded like at the Top Ten. But would it be recognisable as The Beatles to 99% of people? Possibly not.

I know, that's precisely the reason I'd like to know what It was like.
If you were, say, a fan of Robert Johnson, and heard that his records were acoustic Delta blues all the time only because that's what his label wanted him to record and that live he actually played a lot of pop and country backed with local musicians, wouldn't you be curious?

I would love to hear Robert Johnson play different material, because I assume he would play it well.

The Beatles would be mostly playing the same things we already know, but not very well. In small place like the Cavern and Hamburg, the force of their personalities was likely very powerful. They were brash and funny. They played with energy. They had a lot of talent. It would be very fun to SEE those Beatles. But I am guessing that a recording would be disappointing.