Red & Blue Albums

[Lord Reith]

In that PJ podcast he says that he was provided with FIVE tracks for Walrus, which I assume was the original 4 tracks plus the mono mix with the radio feed. I think he says they demixed out the radio stuff.

So was the extra radio stuff in the new mix always there and has been boosted, perhaps? Gotta synch up the mono mix and see if anything corresponds....

[Track06]

EDIT: Crikey! I forgot to check the Anthology DVD.
EDIT: Crikey! I just heard 'sur les armoiries' FL of the Anthology DVD. My assumption it all could be connected to the creation of 'LOVE' are wrong.

Thanks dannysonar. I had those radio bits from the Love DVD-A and MMT Blu-Ray (and 2023 ATMOS) synched up way back in November. They are much clearer on some channels than the mono mix, so there must be a relatively clean track with radio snippets used at least since LOVE. 'Vorsitzende des Ministerrates, Korotshenko', 'les affaires du Vietnam' and 'nouvelle République', seems more like 60s news to me, and we end up with the possibility that the radio has not been mixed live only, although it is possible Giles just used period correct snippets since mixing for LOVE. If it's 'Poroshenko', which strictly speaking wasn't 'Vorsitzende des Ministerates' but we don't have the context anyway, it could be 2005ish news. Don't hear any traces of the bits mentioned in the mono mix personally.

[dannysonar]

So was the extra radio stuff in the new mix always there and has been boosted, perhaps? Gotta synch up the mono mix and see if anything corresponds....

Yes, I think that's it . Boosted way way up !

.

Don't hear any traces of the bits mentioned in the mono mix personally.

The only one I hear in the mono mix is "sur les armoiries", and the reason I can hear it is because I know when to listen - it's extremely faint, but definitely there. I wouldn't be able to tell what is said if there wasn't the new stereo remix to reveal it. But that's the definite proof that it was already there since the beginning and not added later.

[csnyfan]

The radio feed has ADT in the mono mix but appears without ADT on the anthology DVD. Impossible to isolate or undo that in 2003. Consequently, the radio feed was recorded to tape individually, too.

[Tex]

The radio feed has ADT in the mono mix but appears without ADT on the anthology DVD. Impossible to isolate or undo that in 2003. Consequently, the radio feed was recorded to tape individually, too.

Why would they be recording the radio noise (sinewave, dialing, static) to a separate tape at the same time they were mixing it LIVE into the mono mix?? I would think any ADT on the mono mix would have required an additional dubbing step AFTER the mono mix was done. You need an extra tape machine for ADT. So now that's one 4-track machine plus TWO other tape machines all being manned simultaneously during the mono mix. That's a lot of stuff to be trying to do at the same time. I doubt that... UNLESS Lewisohn got it wrong.

I'd have to listen to the the Anthology mix or channels again (if I have them) and see how well separated that stuff is. While they obviously didn't have have spectral they could probably use narrow EQ notches to get the sine wave sound and maybe the static fairly isolated at least enough for a surround mix. Edit: I just listened to a breakdown of the 2012 DVD mix and the sinewave noise sounds added to me.

Here's some (not all) of the isolated sine wave from the mono mix.
hxxps://we.tl/t-pSmfwpMZbM

Here's the whole song.
hxxps://we.tl/t-JhwePVzobd

This just goes to show you don't need to fly in new sound effects you CAN demix the correct sounds from the original mono mix. I don't even have a million dollar studio just a Windows 7 PC and an old version of "Magix Audio Studio". I used MVSEP to get a better sinewave isolation from the previous Demucs.

[csnyfan]

The radio feed has ADT in the mono mix but appears without ADT on the anthology DVD. Impossible to isolate or undo that in 2003. Consequently, the radio feed was recorded to tape individually, too.

Why would they be recording the radio noise (sinewave, dialing, static) to a separate tape at the same time they were mixing it LIVE into the mono mix?? I would think any ADT on the mono mix would have required an additional dubbing step AFTER the mono mix was done. You need an extra tape machine for ADT. So now that's one 4-track machine plus TWO other tape machines all being manned simultaneously during the mono mix. That's a lot of stuff to be trying to do at the same time. I doubt that... UNLESS Lewisohn got it wrong.

I'd have to listen to the the Anthology mix or channels again (if I have them) and see how well separated that stuff is. While they obviously didn't have have spectral they could probably use narrow EQ notches to get the sine wave sound and maybe the static fairly isolated at least enough for a surround mix. Edit: I just listened to a breakdown of the 2012 DVD mix and the sinewave noise sounds added to me.

Here's some (not all) of the isolated sine wave from the mono mix.
hxxps://we.tl/t-pSmfwpMZbM

Here's the whole song.
hxxps://we.tl/t-JhwePVzobd

This just goes to show you don't need to fly in new sound effects you CAN demix the correct sounds from the original mono mix. I don't even have a million dollar studio just a Windows 7 PC and an old version of "Magix Audio Studio". I used MVSEP to get a better sinewave isolation from the previous Demucs.

The radio dialing noise is undoubtedly ADTed on the mono mix. So there was a separate machine running to provide the ADT for the radio feed. And that might explain how the isolated radio feed survived - it could be the tape from the ADT tape machine. People have suggested that the "I'm So Tired" mixes are just that - the ADT tape, used for phasing, and I'm inclined to agree.
The radio feed that is on the 2003 remix is undoubtedly not sourced from the mono mix. The sweeps and swoops are also clean, not just the high pitched sine wave. And there are no phasing artifacts that would necessarily persist with the rest of the track.

[Tex]

The radio dialing noise is undoubtedly ADTed on the mono mix. So there was a separate machine running to provide the ADT for the radio feed. And that might explain how the isolated radio feed survived - it could be the tape from the ADT tape machine. People have suggested that the "I'm So Tired" mixes are just that - the ADT tape, used for phasing, and I'm inclined to agree.
The radio feed that is on the 2003 remix is undoubtedly not sourced from the mono mix. The sweeps and swoops are also clean, not just the high pitched sine wave. And there are no phasing artifacts that would necessarily persist with the rest of the track.

Possible. If there's indeed an extant separate tape they may have tacked it onto the end of the mono mix reel.

Maybe Lewisohn misread the session sheets or misunderstand [more likely] what was going on. Maybe the compilation of the radio sounds and the mono mixing were separate events of the same session? The radio sounds certainly fit really well... too well.

The only issue is why make fake-stereo from the mono to edit onto the stereo mix if you have a tape of the radio sounds you could have flown in live for the stereo mix? The applause effects for "Sgt. Pepper LHCB (Reprise)" were flow in live during mixing there was no more room on the multi-track. Did they forget or misplace the radio effects tape?

[Track06]

Thanks to everyone who picked up on my question. I have since noticed I also forgot about Rock Band, but anyway the Anthology DVD seems the only thing we need to get to that popular point with few answers contradicting established history and more questions. If anyone's interested I could provide the audio.

[Tex]

It just occurred to me the orchestra for "I Am the Walrus" is actually in stereo in the newer remixes. Were there two tracks available on the 4-track? That just leaves drums, guitars, tambourine on one track (heard left in the original stereo mix) and lead vocal, bass and overdubbed snare on the other (heard center). Is that correct? Or was the orchestra on a separate 4-track machine (in sync with the basic tracks) while they did mono and stereo mixes?

We know they did this for "A Day in the Life." For that they had the basic 4-track which contained one track of the initial orchestra overdub and that was manually synced with another 4-track which contained a single track mix-down of the basic 4-track PLUS the other three tracks had three orchestra overdubs. So, the mono and stereo mixes were mixed from two machines running in sync to form a very crude version of a 7-track tape.

Maybe when it came to making the stereo mix of "I Am the Walrus" they could not keep the tapes in sync past the middle and just said screw it take the mono mix and fake stereo-ize it and tack it on because it would have been impossible to get the sync to perfectly match the mono.

Fast forward to 2023 and they have a loose tape of some radio noises that may or may not match the record and they just do whatever because they gotta mix dozens of songs.

Sorry to obsess about this I just like trying to figure how they actually did certain things.

[harrylime]

Prime example of why it's worth it to buy Recording The Beatles, it saves you from taking stabs in the dark for these things:



Full section on IATW as high-res scans: hxxps://imgur.com/a/7KfxuSW , the mixing part explains how the radio feed was indeed live, the postscript touches on the surround mixing of the orchestra.