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Engonoceras wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:54 pm

Beatlesiak wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:43 pm what a version is this?
- original with preemphasis (with increased dynamics)?
- the original without preemphasis (with reduced dynamics)?
- or reconstruction of BT for ProUse?
Because I'm lost

Generally I'm looking for the version mentioned by "yymca6"

The dynamics would be the same so a non-issue.

A CD with pre-emphasis intact basically has a 10+ decibel treble boost added at mastering stage to the WAV files. You would NOT want to listen to that without that boost being reduced by the analog de-emphasis circuit in a CD player or having the EQ modified in a DAW.

To hear the CD as intended you would have to make sure your boot copy of the Toshiba has the pre-emphasis bit manually set in your CD burner software. If you don't set that flag (or don't verify it is set) then you will have a very UN-pleasurable listening experience.

To make a CD with that pre-emphasis removed requires RE-EQing the WAV files in a DAW or other program.

I recorded the analog outs from my CD player years ago and I think those sound slightly better than the DAW adjusted files. The adjusted files sound slightly dull to me. A real Toshiba CD playback sounds great very different than the 1987 and the 2009 masterings.

Something (old analog out rip from Toshiba)
hxxps://we.tl/t-V3ETyyrGew

Something (my own attempt at DAW adjustment).
hxxps://we.tl/t-pRL94bQ9l4

Thank you for your explanation and samples. I agree that your old analog rip seems to sound a bit better even though it's MP3 vs WAV for the newer adjustment.

If someone just made an ISO rip from the original Japan disc, would that insure that all the proper flags were already pre-set when burning a disc? If so, it would seem that is a far superior way to share this original mastering than trying to figure out how, or if, those flags are set properly before burning a CD of any individual files shared here. Personally, I don't have a clue how to check flags, or manually set flags in any Burn software.

I think all of us technical neophytes need either an ISO version of the original, or a detailed instruction sheet written to explain how to properly burn these individual files onto a CD so the result actually matches what the playback of an original Toshiba black triangle disc would be outputting.

applebonkerz wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:18 pm

Engonoceras wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:54 pm

Beatlesiak wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:43 pm what a version is this?
- original with preemphasis (with increased dynamics)?
- the original without preemphasis (with reduced dynamics)?
- or reconstruction of BT for ProUse?
Because I'm lost

Generally I'm looking for the version mentioned by "yymca6"

The dynamics would be the same so a non-issue.

A CD with pre-emphasis intact basically has a 10+ decibel treble boost added at mastering stage to the WAV files. You would NOT want to listen to that without that boost being reduced by the analog de-emphasis circuit in a CD player or having the EQ modified in a DAW.

To hear the CD as intended you would have to make sure your boot copy of the Toshiba has the pre-emphasis bit manually set in your CD burner software. If you don't set that flag (or don't verify it is set) then you will have a very UN-pleasurable listening experience.

To make a CD with that pre-emphasis removed requires RE-EQing the WAV files in a DAW or other program.

I recorded the analog outs from my CD player years ago and I think those sound slightly better than the DAW adjusted files. The adjusted files sound slightly dull to me. A real Toshiba CD playback sounds great very different than the 1987 and the 2009 masterings.

Something (old analog out rip from Toshiba)
hxxps://we.tl/t-V3ETyyrGew

Something (my own attempt at DAW adjustment).
hxxps://we.tl/t-pRL94bQ9l4

Thank you for your explanation and samples. I agree that your old analog rip seems to sound a bit better even though it's MP3 vs WAV for the newer adjustment.

If someone just made an ISO rip from the original Japan disc, would that insure that all the proper flags were already pre-set when burning a disc? If so, it would seem that is a far superior way to share this original mastering than trying to figure out how, or if, those flags are set properly before burning a CD of any individual files shared here. Personally, I don't have a clue how to check flags, or manually set flags in any Burn software.

I think all of us technical neophytes need either an ISO version of the original, or a detailed instruction sheet written to explain how to properly burn these individual files onto a CD so the result actually matches what the playback of an original Toshiba black triangle disc would be outputting.

"If someone just made an ISO rip from the original Japan disc, would that insure that all the proper flags were already pre-set when burning a disc? "

Not necessarily. Discs with pre-emp very often didn't have the flags encoded. Not sure if this one did or not. Also not all later players look for the flag and so don't do the required de-emp when playing such a disc anyway.

The best way forward is to rip a CD you know to be pre-emp'd applying the de-emp digitally and then if you are wanting to have it on CD again burn the de-emp'd copied wav files and it will now play back correctly on any CD player. And your ripped tracks will also play correctly on your computer, portable player, mobile phone etc.

You need to apply the de-emp with a plug-in to a DAW or player (like Foobar 2000 for instance) not via an analogue rip. You might think a certain analogue rip sounds better but I can assure you it won't sound as it should. It will sound like it has been EQ tweaked outside of the 'flat' recording you are attempting to restore because a CD player that does the de-emp via it's analogue circuits will not apply the exact correct curve. It will undoubtedly apply too little or too much at parts or all of the curve. And it will apply more or less depending on the age of the player as circuits degrade over time so even if you think Sony got the player set bang on an early model player at the time of manufacture (which is unlikely) it will undoubtedly have wandered out by now. A computer will apply the curve the same every time. Correctly every time. So you need to do it digitally.

The Toshiba is mastered at low volume it needs to be raised.

I did that analog rip as loud as I could without clipping in 2001 with a 1991 Pioneer using a boot Toshiba. That's why it is louder. Here's the second half of the medley also "analog" rip:
hxxps://we.tl/t-xpSTJZIuhp

Back then I thought the 1983 Toshiba had a bit more life and sounded more 3D. The bass guitar and strings popped out of the speakers more to my ears.

Here's my digital de-emp of the second half of the medley with very minor EQ adjustments (raised lower mids).
hxxps://we.tl/t-I7f6f6X2Gi

The Toshiba deserves a really good mastering beyond just a de-emph.

I'm very curious to have a listen to a good "deemphasized" edition of the Black Triangle Abbey Road. I located one version in a trade, but it seems a bit tinny (ie high frequencies too strong), and yet flat sounding overall. After reading through this thread I found that all the links to the properly deemphasized songs have expired. Would someone be kind enough to reupload a proper-sounding version of this album?

hardcandytim wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:35 pm I'm very curious to have a listen to a good "deemphasized" edition of the Black Triangle Abbey Road. I located one version in a trade, but it seems a bit tinny (ie high frequencies too strong), and yet flat sounding overall. After reading through this thread I found that all the links to the properly deemphasized songs have expired. Would someone be kind enough to reupload a proper-sounding version of this album?

This is what I have: hxxps://fromsmash.com/CP35-3016 , doesn't sound tinny at all.

Thanks very much!

Thank you Volker

THANKS VERY MUCH !!

Thanks again!

Hi, could someone explain me the "pre-emphasis" or "de-emphasized" thing? I don't understand those terms. I would really love to listen to this unique version of Abbey Road, if someone could reupload this too I'd be really grateful!