A Big Request...

What are you missing? We're here to help! Also feel free to post your lists for trading or sharing.
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mitchellmichael
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by mitchellmichael »

Mrbeatleg wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:46 pm
mitchellmichael wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:01 pm
Mrbeatleg wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:36 pm here's 27, 28 and 30 as requested

hxxps://we.tl/t-4D5Lmqvbj9
Would you mind uploading your older version of the complete set? Even if you have to break it out over a few days or a week or a month?
I'll upload a few each day. I'll start with Vol 1
Awesome! Thanks Mrbeatleg!
Cheers
Mike
zaval80
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by zaval80 »

Track06 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:08 am from A/B Road's notes:

This set has long been the subject of debate… is it lossy or not?

Basically the two arguments go like this:

1) Uncompressed: These thousands of 16 minute reels were recorded on a set of Nagra recorders for possible film use. The tape and recorders used likely didn't reproduce the entire spectrum from 20 Hz to 20kHz – these were not the tapes used for the albums. The lack of dynamic range on the equipment and media would produce high-end roll off around where we see the MP3 codecs of today roll off, and that makes these tapes appear lossy, when they simply were not recorded full-spectrum.

2) Compressed: Regardless of the frequency reproduction range of the recorders and media (tape), a lot of this set exhibits characteristics of ATRAC compression on a graphic frequency analyzer, like that found on MiniDisc recorders. Old analog equipment wouldn't produce these kinds of characteristics, so it is likely these tracks went through a MiniDisc recorder at some point.


The dilema: No one… NO ONE seems to have these tracks in any other quality. They all seem to be the same, no matter where you get them from, and now that the original reels have been recovered (see the story above (you were reading, weren't you ? :) ), it doesn't seem that we'll ever see a cleaner, more pure transfer.

It is my opinion that this set was archived from reels to MiniDisc and the source for the splicing was those MiniDisc transfers. I'd be surprised if a lossless transfer to digital was ever done of this 98 HOURS of audio. Since this seems to be all there is to have, The Traders Den has made a special exemption for this set, to allow it to be posted – just like if a concert was only recorded to MiniDisc and that's the only way it exists.

It is very rare to notice any of the ATRAC artifacts when listening to these recordings. ATRAC is much more pleasant than MP3, even at high rates, and doesn't exhibit any obvious "swishy" aliasing on this particular set, at all.
That's right, A/B Road stuff is an assemblage from the Nagra reels, but copied through the MiniDiscs (lossy). And DBD is stuff copied from the same reels, through who knows what generations (not so good sounding as A/B Road), but losslessly.
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by zaval80 »

r9453 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:28 pm Is it possible that DBD (Yellow Dog) predates A/B Road (Purple Chick) and therefor is from a different earlier transfer without MD in the lineage? From what I could find after a quick google search, YD was released in 2000 and PC in 2004.

Also, I'm not sure if DBD was released as a complete set, or over an extended period, maybe years. During which time fakes began to emerge.

For example, when you search the wayback machine for YDD001 you get:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190327014 ... ame=ydd001

But for YDD057 (which is Vol 29 CD 1) you get this one labelled as fake:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190327013 ... ame=ydd057

Beatleg historians wanted :!:
DBD should not have MD in the lineage.
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gonchichi
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by gonchichi »

Track06 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:57 pm :shock: Thank you, Mrbeatleg!

Not only it has the all 4 rolls, it also is a rip of yellow dog's "day by day". A/B Road uses a folddown of it.
But what is "what we had"? it looks partially lossless while it shouldn't, noise level is lower and it runs at slightly different speed. I'm puzzled. Anybody got a clue?

Image

What do I have to do to get the other 75 from that GOOD source? You wouldn't send the set to me for doing some exact audio copies, would you?
It's such a shame this important release isn't circulating in the quality it deserves. :cry:
Maybe I should add one more mystery to Vol.29:
While Track 4 (Nagra Tape Roll 491A) of Mrbeatleg's set has a noticeable burst noise at the beginning and a 20-second silence at the end just like Track 4 of our previous version, our previous version of Track 3 (another Nagra Tape Roll 491A) doesn't have such flaws. Where does the flawless Nagra Tape Roll 491A come from???
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millerTEK
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by millerTEK »

In my opinion - having owned many earlier CD sets of GB Sessions (Nagra source), I still found the purple chick AB Road Nagra set and the newer Innerwreckdom Spectral Stereo set (still Nagra sourced) don't sound any better if you have them in FLAC or MP3 (okay 320MP3). I have seen the diagrams with the levels, but really these are not true verified reference documentation as we all know you can increase the DB levels to match these).

So, who cares - the Nagra source is mono no matter what presentation exists. Don;t get confused and think the Glyn JOhns multitrack versions that have been released or leaked mean there is a Nagra source that will match it...look at the DDSI/GB mappings and you'll see what was multi-track recording by Glyn Johns.

So enjoy what Nagra items you have! yes, the sources can be improved with Spectral stereo work, and IF YOU HAVE MONEY - Peter JAckson can probably clean the NAGRA sources up more and even make surround mixes for us to watch Thanksgiving...so with the remaining many hours left over - enjoy what you can get...as Apple will never invest in remastering hundreds of hours of NAGRA, release it, and pray enough fans will pay the huge price to own it, so they can recoup their investment.
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yymca6
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by yymca6 »

r9453 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:28 pm Is it possible that DBD (Yellow Dog) predates A/B Road (Purple Chick) and therefor is from a different earlier transfer without MD in the lineage? From what I could find after a quick google search, YD was released in 2000 and PC in 2004.

Also, I'm not sure if DBD was released as a complete set, or over an extended period, maybe years. During which time fakes began to emerge.

For example, when you search the wayback machine for YDD001 you get:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190327014 ... ame=ydd001

But for YDD057 (which is Vol 29 CD 1) you get this one labelled as fake:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190327013 ... ame=ydd057

Beatleg historians wanted :!:
According to the artwork DBD spans from 2000 to 2004, so it probably predates A/B Road
Yves
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mitchellmichael
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by mitchellmichael »

According to the dates on Discogs, Day by Day ran from 2000 - 2004. Purple Chick started A/B Road in 2004.
Cheers
Mike
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r9453
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by r9453 »

After the auction, Snelleman was approached by a man who had been noticing what he had been bidding on. The man told him that he was in the possession of lots more of the same material, was Snelleman interested? Of course he was! It turned out that the tapes at the auction were mere copies of a fragment of what the unknown man had at home. The man lived in Slough, and his name was Nigel Oliver. As it turned out, he was a former Apple employee, office boy and tape library assistant at Apple studio. And the Nagra tapes were being kept at the studio. When the studio was shut down, Oliver asked if he could take the remaining Nagra tapes. No one objected to this, and he took them all back home with him.

Snelleman struck a deal with Oliver and bought all the tapes for about 80 thousand guilders (now 36 thousand euro), and loaded them into his Opel Omega. They drove to the ferry to Harwich Hook of Holland. Back in Holland, the contents of the tapes were transferred to digital, and divided into two file folders, the A-rolls and the B-rolls. Their bootleg company Yellow Dog was used to distribute discs of the material. In the early 2000s, Yellow Dog Records created Day by Day, a 38-part CD series comprising the Nagra tape recordings in their entirety.
http://webgrafikk.com/blog/uncategorize ... gra-tapes/
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Track06
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by Track06 »

Very grateful, Mrbeatleg. Still puzzled though.

Mrbeatleg's share equals the main source for A/B Road (something like ((Aleft + Aright)/2 - B = 0). That alone makes it important to me.
These are likely from minidiscs, just like I thought they are supposed to be for 15 years now.

Maybe zaval80 is right, so Mrbeatleg's and PC's source would not be the real thing, but we possibly had an rip of the real (mostly) lossless thing (since 2015?), marred by an awful lot of flaws. No real info on the lineage. Graphics/Tracks structure makes it looks like coming from octaner's blog, maybe?
Basically gonchichi's question, just spanning the entire set.
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yymca6
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Re: A Big Request...

Post by yymca6 »

Mrbeatleg wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:36 pm here's 27, 28 and 30 as requested

hxxps://we.tl/t-4D5Lmqvbj9
Should we consider these 3 volumes as part of what you will be uploading soon starting with Volume 1?
Yves
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