The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

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Lord Reith
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by Lord Reith »

ianbuckers wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:39 am He is obviously right as you can't restore what has been lost...but as you say it seems to work on the 2009 tracks. Maybe the limiting was only applied to certain (low) frequencies?
Possibly.
But should I be self-correcting myself re the USB stick. Further re-reading of notes taken from SHF posts suggest the USB stick was NOT subject to the limiting. It was only the CDs. Is that your understanding?
No. The usb stick has the limiting too. Only the 2012 lps don't, but if you do as I instructed above you will end up with something completely identical to the lps, but without vinyl artefacts.
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by ianbuckers »

Yes I did a few tracks when you posted it on BZ and results were great...that's why I wanted to get a refresh on the method....so I can do all the 2009 albums.

Somebody on Hoffman definitely posted some waveform images that he said showed a difference on the stick against the CDs. I'll try and find it again later.

I've just used the method on a couple of non-Beatles tracks that are from a remastered version CD and seemed brickwalled or limited. The peaks post method are restored to how the look on a vinyl rip of the same tracks (that I had in mp3). That I'm sure doesn't tell the whole story but they do seem to sound better. Less bassy but better for it...
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by alphabeatles »

Back in 2013, Mirror Spock did a set of "2009 Digital Remaster UNLIMITED" in 24/44.

And another person from a different time and place did "Demastered" versions.

Add in the unlimited LPs, and 2 of these three unlimited offerings are probably unnecessary to keep ;-)
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by ianbuckers »

alphabeatles wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:38 pm Back in 2013, Mirror Spock did a set of "2009 Digital Remaster UNLIMITED" in 24/44.

And another person from a different time and place did "Demastered" versions.

Add in the unlimited LPs, and 2 of these three unlimited offerings are probably unnecessary to keep ;-)
Not really the same thing alpha.

Am fully aware of these 'demasters' and 'unlimited' versions but they (claim to) use software and algorithms to rebuild the bits that are missing. There are a number of programs available that do this and these suspects either used one of those or developed their own code.

The Lord's method does nothing to attempt to 'add back in' that which is clipped or limited. The above make claims to do so.

As in the specific case of the 2009 remasters LR's method seems to 100% work I speculated that maybe it only affected low frequencies hence the high pass doing what it did.
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by alphabeatles »

Thanks ianbuckers, did LR or anyone else actually finish and post their Audacity versions? Or are each of us left to do it on our own? ;-)
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by alphabeatles »

Lord Reith wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:48 amYes, if you have audacity set up in 32 bit mode (in quality settings) you can perform a function which makes the tracks look exactly like the tracks on the 2012 vinyls (which we know for a fact didn't have limiting).
Can the application of effect and export of separate tracks be batch-processed? I seem to recall some discussion of that.
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by Lord Reith »

alphabeatles wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:41 pm
Lord Reith wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:48 amYes, if you have audacity set up in 32 bit mode (in quality settings) you can perform a function which makes the tracks look exactly like the tracks on the 2012 vinyls (which we know for a fact didn't have limiting).
Can the application of effect and export of separate tracks be batch-processed? I seem to recall some discussion of that.

-upload all the tracks into the same audacity window
- highlight all of them
-do the hipass filter thing
-with them all still highlighted, do the amplify thing
- after this the shorter tracks will have silence appended at the end. You can get rid of these by double clicking on the silence and hitting delete.
-use "export multiple" and "export by track" to export all the songs.

Mirror Spock used a different method which was to synch up some vinyl and add the peaks from the vinyl.

I have no explanation for why the method I posted works. All I know is that it produces something identical to the unlimited 2012 vinyl. No matter how you compare them - spectrally, in waveform, with the DR Meter or just with your ears - they are the same. The only difference is that the vinyl usually has distortion overtones above 22khz.

It should be pointed out that other stuff was done to the remasters:

- the ends of songs were faded slightly early
- clicks were removed, even clacking drumsticks or vocal ticks
- for the first two albums, each channel was eq'd and the levels adjusted independently of one other. After that, the eq was only adjusted in stereo. Some songs have big eq changes.
- they all have a big bass bump around 100hz. This is probably a good thing on the early albums but was unnecessary after 1966.
- some of the albums were narrowed slightly (at least With The Beatles and A Hard Days Night) by blending maybe -15db of the left channel with the right and vice versa. However, narrowing was also done to ALL the original vinyl lps, both tube cut and solid state and in 2012.

In my humble opinion, the 2009 versions of Revolver onwards are not as good as the 1987's. The 87's are very similar to the solid state lps of the 70s and early 80s, with the exception of having no narrowing. Ironically, I think the lack of narrowing may be what has prejudiced some people against them as it creates a slightly different stereo impression. Also lovers of the 1960s tube cut lps might have found them too different since the bass was rolled off below 75hz on the 1960s tube cut versions (a practice which ended in the 1970s when the lps were recut many times on more sophisticated equipment). And lets face it: most cd players in the 80s were shite. I know many people who've unboxed their old 87s and given them another listen now and are pleasantly surprised.

My preferred cds for each album:

PPM thru BFS: 2009 with the above process applied
HELP: 1990 Disque Americ
RUBBER SOUL: 2009 Bonus stereo version in mono box
REVOLVER: 1990 Disque Americ
PEPPER: 1987
MMT: 1987
WHITE ALBUM: 1990 Disque Americ, or 30th Anniversary issue
YELLOW SUB: the songtrack version with the blue cover, or the 1987
ABBEY ROAD: the 1983 japanese cd, but only after de-emphasis has been applied
LET IT BE: 1987
PAST MASTERS: 1987

For the vinyls, I don't like the tube cuts from the 60s because they are too fuzzy for me and there is no bass. I like Harry Moss's later cuts from the late 70s/early 80s. There's also a pretty good Australian version of Pepper the name of which escapes me, but it is still very similar to the 87 cd.
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by ianbuckers »

There's also a pretty good Australian version of Pepper the name of which escapes me, but it is still very similar to the 87 cd.
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by alphabeatles »

Thanks LR!
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Re: The 2012 Vinyl Re-Issues Were From 44.1khz Source

Post by ianbuckers »

Lord Reith wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:54 am
ianbuckers wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:39 am He is obviously right as you can't restore what has been lost...but as you say it seems to work on the 2009 tracks. Maybe the limiting was only applied to certain (low) frequencies?
Possibly.
But should I be self-correcting myself re the USB stick. Further re-reading of notes taken from SHF posts suggest the USB stick was NOT subject to the limiting. It was only the CDs. Is that your understanding?
No. The usb stick has the limiting too. Only the 2012 lps don't, but if you do as I instructed above you will end up with something completely identical to the lps, but without vinyl artefacts.
This is what I remembered reading...

"It's worth mentioning that 2009 RBCD versions of louder tracks feature a very slight additional limiting applied compared to their 24/44 USB counterparts, f.e. Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby null-test delta (zoom=128) looks like that:

[​IMG]

So having a 24/44 USB versions gives a tad of an advantage over RBCD for louder material."

...seems it was being alleged that the stick had different limiting noticeable on the 'louder' tracks.
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