Abbey Road (Black Triangle) CD

[michael_charles]

So I have a question. Why does the pre-emphasis version have a higher DR value than the de-emph version?

Here is DR from a Pre-Emph version I have had for awhile.

Analyzed: The Beatles / Abbey Road [Toshiba Black Triangle]
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
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DR12 -2.04 dB -18.76 dB 4:20 01-Come Together
DR11 -4.51 dB -18.86 dB 3:02 02-Something
DR14 -2.34 dB -19.13 dB 3:28 03-Maxwell's Silver Hammer
DR12 -4.06 dB -17.91 dB 3:27 04-Oh! Darling
DR13 -3.52 dB -19.11 dB 2:51 05-Octopus's Garden
DR11 -4.03 dB -17.12 dB 7:46 06-I Want You (She's So Heavy)
DR14 -1.20 dB -18.48 dB 3:05 07-Here Comes The Sun
DR11 -7.57 dB -21.09 dB 2:46 08-Because
DR12 -5.03 dB -20.33 dB 3:57 09-You Never Give Me Your Money
DR9 -7.87 dB -20.21 dB 2:31 10-Sun King
DR11 -2.97 dB -16.73 dB 1:06 11-Mean Mr. Mustard
DR11 -3.01 dB -16.19 dB 1:18 12-Polythene Pam
DR11 -2.91 dB -16.23 dB 1:53 13-She Came In Through The Bathroom Window
DR11 -3.86 dB -20.46 dB 1:31 14-Golden Slumbers
DR10 -4.35 dB -17.50 dB 1:36 15-Carry That Weight
DR11 -2.03 dB -17.89 dB 2:21 16-The End
DR12 -7.42 dB -27.69 dB 0:25 17-Her Majesty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 17
Official DR value: DR11

This is the DR value for Paul's which is pretty spot on with another de-emph version I have.

Analyzed: The Beatles / Abbey Road [Black Triangle]
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10 -2.80 dB -14.62 dB 4:20 01-Come Together
DR8 -2.65 dB -14.02 dB 3:02 02-Something
DR11 -3.25 dB -15.72 dB 3:28 03-Maxwell's Silver Hammer
DR9 -2.03 dB -14.14 dB 3:27 04-Oh! Darling
DR10 -2.96 dB -15.13 dB 2:51 05-Octopus's Gardern
DR9 -1.22 dB -12.80 dB 7:46 06-I Want You (She's So Heavy)
DR10 -1.02 dB -13.56 dB 3:05 07-Here Comes the Sun
DR10 -2.56 dB -15.56 dB 2:46 08-Because
DR10 -1.73 dB -14.68 dB 3:57 09-You Never Give Me Your Money
DR8 -3.89 dB -14.66 dB 2:31 10-Sun King
DR10 -0.36 dB -11.93 dB 1:06 11-Mean Mr. Mustard
DR8 -1.55 dB -10.91 dB 1:18 12-Polythene Pam
DR8 -1.24 dB -11.35 dB 1:53 13-She Came In Through The Bathroom Window
DR9 -1.26 dB -14.59 dB 1:31 14-Golden Slumbers
DR9 -0.73 dB -11.71 dB 1:36 15-Carry That Weight
DR9 0.00 dB -13.55 dB 2:21 16-The End
DR11 -5.20 dB -22.08 dB 0:25 17-Her Majesty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 17
Official DR value: DR9

Thanks,

Michael

[paul62]

Enjoy the soup! Maybe one day we'll be able to upload food and recreate it with the help of 3D printers

One day, humans might have to nourish themselves with astronaut food, on Earth, which is a sad thing to think about...!!!

Aha! The de-limiting setting for the 2009 remasters! GOOD one, paul62!

That's the one, my friend!!

Thank you Paul, another gem for my collection!

Glad you like it, my friend!! I have the USB stick version made to sound like an Australian-cut LP from the late seventies/early eighties which I can share, as well.

[powerPC]

Glad you like it, my friend!! I have the USB stick version made to sound like an Australian-cut LP from the late seventies/early eighties which I can share, as well.

Share away bro!

[Tex]

So I have a question. Why does the pre-emphasis version have a higher DR value than the de-emph version?

CDs with pre-emphasis basically have greatly exaggerated treble. The purpose of this was they would cut the treble on playback supposedly reducing added CD Player decoding noise or something at the same time. The process was quickly abandoned because it just wasn't necessary after better D/A decoding came along.

A real shootout would be taking the Toshiba "Abbey Road" with emphasis intact, extracting one track (I suggest "Something") and then applying multiple "de-emphasis" plugins to produce multiple de-emph'd versions and see (a) what the differences actually are (b) what people prefer. I would do it but I don't have the time and don't want to track down plug-ins.

There is the SoX plugin
http://sox.sourceforge.net/

There is "IIR filter" that will work with Foobar. You select the filter with the option "CD De-Emphasis" selection.

There's also an Audacity plugin. In the old days may have been a VST plugin.

I did my de-emph conversion years ago but I forgot what plugin I used it may have been one of those or something different.

Here is my old conversion and remaster of "Something" which must have been done in WinAmp or Foobar from the WAVs taken from a digital copy of the Toshiba CD which I received around the year 2000. Unfortunately I have no idea what plugin was used sorry. It's labeled "remaster" because I think I may have raised the lower mid-range slightly by a couple decibels to add some warmth and presence. It also has a tiny bit of harmonic restoration from "Magix Audio Cleaning Lab".

hxxps://we.tl/t-21a18xlRHT

[paul62]

Here we go, brothers and sisters!!

This one has two versions of the USB stick (as rectified to sound like the LP as reissued in 1980): the v2 has had the bass compression removed (as mentioned upthread). Lots of other info contained in the .rar file as well (pictorial content, as well):

hxxps://gofile.io/d/cwNKp0

[Tex]

When I first played the boot copy of the Toshiba "Abbey Road" on a real player (c.1990 Pioneer) the thing that was immediate noticeably with the fluidity and presence of the bass guitar. Also the first string swell on "Something" leaped out of the speakers in 3D like I never heard on the 1987 CD. I was like "Woah!". It almost sounded like a different mix. Definitely there is a little magic in the Toshiba disc that simply is not in the EMI disc. Maybe Toshiba Japan added something or EMI England lost something, who knows.

[noirbar]

Paul's de-emph sounds nothing like either of ours they sound VERY muffled like shaved off above 15khz...Cheers.

Hey Engo,

First, thanks for all your feedback. Sorry, quick question from down here in San Antone to make sure I follow your comment -- are you saying Paul's is the least muffled to your ears?

By the way, in my view "Texas soup" needs pollo y chiles, with avocado and sour cream on the side. Hasta luego.

NB

[paul62]

We can't discount the real possibilities that there are bogus Black Triangle discs burned and sold and we can't discount the real possibilities that there are real Black Triangle discs that weren't decoded properly.

The one that I've had since 2008 (or early 2009) doesn't have any informative notes in the folder that I can share, alas: the .m3u file is called 00 - The Beatles - Abbey Road (1969) [FLAC] {De-Emphasized Black Triangle}. Despite the absence of any solid information or provenance, I'll accept that it is a genuine Black Triangle CD which was given correct de-emphasis treatment (either as a CD that was ripped and de-emphasised via software or as a CD played in a vintage CD player and the output captured in a DAW).

Testing this BT version of "Come Together" versus the '87 CD version (as ripped by me in EAC about ten years ago), the '87 is lower in volume: the EQ to make the '87 "Come Together" like the Black Triangle "Come Together" can be seen below.
Aside from the volume differences, the two versions are similar enough from 20-2000Hz (and even from 2000-10000Hz) then the BT version loses volume in the upper frequency range at a steep descent.



Another useful cross-check I've undertaken was pbthal's 24 bit 96kHz 'drop of the Pro Use LP against my recent 'drop of the Pro Use LP: I'd converted the 24 bit 192kHz 'drop to 24 bit 96kHz and then I'd run it through de-clicking software (a good product called Wave Corrector: the professional edition is freeware for anybody reading this who might be interested).

The volume of pbthal's 'drop is a bit higher in volume (but not by that much) and the two versions more or less correlate, speed-wise (mine runs slower by roughly 0.011%, an irrelevant amount in the overall scheme of things).

There's no difference between the two from 20-400Hz then pbthal's 'drop has a steady volume increase from 400Hz to about 12000hz then a severe decrease from 12000Hz onwards. His 'drop has inaudible audio content beyond the redbook standard of 22050Hz (so, we'll accept that his 'drop is true hi-rez, as you'd expect with the expensive gear he has on hand): mine stops at about 22050Hz (or maybe 24000Hz), only due to the limitations of the specifications of my laptop soundcard.

[Rave O Lucien]

By the way, in my view "Texas soup" needs pollo y chiles, with avocado and sour cream on the side. Hasta luego.

We have that in El Paso, too.

[paul62]

The last test was to see what EQ curve would make the "Black Triangle converted to paul62's Pro Use" version of "Come Together" sound like the '87 CD version: a drop in volume between 55Hz and 2000Hz in a wide ditch shape, then an increase in volume between 2000Hz and about 13000Hz in the shape of a hill (then a sharp drop in volume thereafter).