TAXMAN (+ new alt mix)

Fan created remixes and rare variations
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Lord Reith
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by Lord Reith »

jpa wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:48 am Yeah, but the left side guitar separation and volume is also vastly improved relative to ABRACADABRA!
Yes that's the main reason I did it. There's a few like that where I wasn't entirely happy with the old result. Fixing A Hole and If I Needed Someone were another two.
Ernesto wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:27 pm Think the volume of the rythm guitar in Taxman on the left chanel is a bit high, it hurts a bit on headphones!
That might bejust because the Anthology mix is a bit brighter.
Engonoceras wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:23 am Actually I don't think the Revolver SDE album mixes will be that awful this time. Weird, confusing and frustrating yes, but not objectively awful (to most). I'm sure the mixes will be bathed in Giles' special blend of tricky-dicky digi-plugery but whatever. Apparently a lot of people like that and a thousand Hoffman Beatards can't be wrong.
Giles has a difficult path to tread, I think. He did do the Rockband mixes a decade ago and they were very faithfull to the original sound. So we know he can do that if he wants. I'm sure the pressure is coming from others, especially marketing people who would be shouting about how the mixes need to be competitive with what is streaming at the moment. So that is how the over-use of limiting and compression is coming about I believe - from higher up the chain. You'll notice that the mixes have gotten incrememntally less squashed with every passing year. 1+ and Pepper had virtually just one volume the whole way through. The White Album was much better and now the Pepper atmos mix is much less compressed than the 2017 version. So - hopefully - whoever is pushing for these things to have the life squashed out of them is getting put back in their box gradually. I'm hoping that given the high levels of compression and limiting used on the original 1966 recordings, there will be little need for any extra compression now.

One thing that drives me nuts though is the sugary sprinkling of artificial harmonics (once known as Aphex) on all the vocals. I just hate that. It destroys the integrity of the vocals and sounds really anachronistic.

Overall though, I'm confident the new Revolver will be a keeper. In Anthology (the video) we had lovely glimpses of stereo vocals in IOS and stereo horns in GTGYIML. And we have had stereo vocals on some of the other Revolver tracks that have been remixed. So in that department at least it should be a stunning improvement, with more open and spacious harmonies.
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by theboxinargentina »

A question for our Lord:

There are gorgeous harmonies all over Revolver and especially (3-part harmonies) on Rubber Soul. It sounds fantastic when they're panned left and right, ala the Beach Boys. I'm more referring to group vocals, where there are 2 or more singers harmonizing, tracked twice. So for Taxman, George's lead vocal is double-tracked. And it sounds fine to me if both George's are mixed center, as in your remix. That's not something I think needs to be spread. But when the others sing with him, tracked twice, I feel like I'm really missing something if the two tracks aren't panned.

My question for you is: On your Revolver and Rubber Soul remixes do you prefer that double-tracked group vocals be mixed center and on top of each other, or is your hand forced by circumstances to mix in this way?
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by Tex »

theboxinargentina wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:35 am On your Revolver and Rubber Soul remixes do you prefer that double-tracked group vocals be mixed center and on top of each other, or is your hand forced by circumstances to mix in this way?
I think double-track lead vocals should always overlap quite a bit never be pulled totally apart like in separate speakers. They double-tracked them to thicken the sound. The lead singer should be in front of you. Splitting them super wide makes as much sense as panning individual piano/keyboard notes across the stereo or pulling the drum kit apart.
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by alphabeatles »

Engonoceras wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:38 pm
theboxinargentina wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:35 am On your Revolver and Rubber Soul remixes do you prefer that double-tracked group vocals be mixed center and on top of each other, or is your hand forced by circumstances to mix in this way?
I think double-track lead vocals should always overlap quite a bit never be pulled totally apart like in separate speakers. They double-tracked them to thicken the sound. The lead singer should be in front of you. Splitting them super wide makes as much sense as panning individual piano/keyboard notes across the stereo or pulling the drum kit apart.
There are "academic mixes" and "good mixes", and both have their place ;-)
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by theboxinargentina »

Engonoceras wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:38 pm
theboxinargentina wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:35 am On your Revolver and Rubber Soul remixes do you prefer that double-tracked group vocals be mixed center and on top of each other, or is your hand forced by circumstances to mix in this way?
I think double-track lead vocals should always overlap quite a bit never be pulled totally apart like in separate speakers. They double-tracked them to thicken the sound. The lead singer should be in front of you. Splitting them super wide makes as much sense as panning individual piano/keyboard notes across the stereo or pulling the drum kit apart.
Did you miss the distinction I made between a double-tracked lead vocal, and double-tracked group harmonies ala "Nowhere Man"?
Because I was careful to make the distinction.
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by Lord Reith »

theboxinargentina wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:35 am A question for our Lord:

There are gorgeous harmonies all over Revolver and especially (3-part harmonies) on Rubber Soul. It sounds fantastic when they're panned left and right, ala the Beach Boys. I'm more referring to group vocals, where there are 2 or more singers harmonizing, tracked twice. So for Taxman, George's lead vocal is double-tracked. And it sounds fine to me if both George's are mixed center, as in your remix. That's not something I think needs to be spread. But when the others sing with him, tracked twice, I feel like I'm really missing something if the two tracks aren't panned.

My question for you is: On your Revolver and Rubber Soul remixes do you prefer that double-tracked group vocals be mixed center and on top of each other, or is your hand forced by circumstances to mix in this way?
Sometimes I widen a double tracked vocal slightly. I did on You Won't See Me because there are backing "oooos" on the same track and Paul's doubling vocal and it sounds weird if they are in the centre and the other set of "oooos" are on the right. And there are other songs I mixed like that too - I Need You is one.

On the AHDN album I also have the double tracked vocals slightly split, but in a more balanced way than on the 1964 mix where one is in the centre and one on the right. In those cases I put them each slightly to one side.

Sometimes I do the reverse and centre two vocals which are split on the original mix. This is when there is a close harmony part that needs to follow the lead vocal. A good example is Act Naturally where the original mix has Paul's harmony off to the right. It sounds much more coherent with it in the centre along with Ringo.

On Hold Me Tight, I separated the John and George vocals and split them off to the right because they are a separate entity in themselves and don't need to be in the same position as the lead vocal.

On Revolver I spent a lot of time moving the original and ADT vocal to the centre, because it sounds really offputting with them hard panned like that. But in cases where there was genuine vocal overdubs I tried to make them stereo where possible eg: Yellow Submarine. I suspect the new Revolver remix will have a lot more separated vocals given that they have access to the multitracks.

I one case (She Said She Said) I used demixing to separate the harmonies. But that is the only time I've done that, because generally it sounds a bit lofi and I only did it then because there isn't a lot of separation in the instruments.
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White album Doby Atmos version

Post by etidel »

Hello Friends
Does someone know whether the White album Dolby Atmos version is available somewhere ?
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by theboxinargentina »

Lord Reith wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:38 pm Sometimes I widen a double tracked vocal slightly. I did on You Won't See Me because there are backing "oooos" on the same track and Paul's doubling vocal and it sounds weird if they are in the centre and the other set of "oooos" are on the right. And there are other songs I mixed like that too - I Need You is one.

On the AHDN album I also have the double tracked vocals slightly split, but in a more balanced way than on the 1964 mix where one is in the centre and one on the right. In those cases I put them each slightly to one side.

Sometimes I do the reverse and centre two vocals which are split on the original mix. This is when there is a close harmony part that needs to follow the lead vocal. A good example is Act Naturally where the original mix has Paul's harmony off to the right. It sounds much more coherent with it in the centre along with Ringo.

On Hold Me Tight, I separated the John and George vocals and split them off to the right because they are a separate entity in themselves and don't need to be in the same position as the lead vocal.

On Revolver I spent a lot of time moving the original and ADT vocal to the centre, because it sounds really offputting with them hard panned like that. But in cases where there was genuine vocal overdubs I tried to make them stereo where possible eg: Yellow Submarine. I suspect the new Revolver remix will have a lot more separated vocals given that they have access to the multitracks.

I one case (She Said She Said) I used demixing to separate the harmonies. But that is the only time I've done that, because generally it sounds a bit lofi and I only did it then because there isn't a lot of separation in the instruments.
Thank you for the insight into your thinking!
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by Kwai Chang »

Engonoceras wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:38 pm I think double-track lead vocals should always overlap quite a bit never be pulled totally apart like in separate speakers. They double-tracked them to thicken the sound. The lead singer should be in front of you. Splitting them super wide makes as much sense as panning individual piano/keyboard notes across the stereo or pulling the drum kit apart.
I agree with that! It's bad enough that the brain wants to keep track of each individual component like it's herding sheep...
but to throw a 2nd Paul, or a 2nd George into the panorama will usually pop a 15 amp breaker.
Double track vocals attempts at lushness. It isn't always successful but when it works it justifies the effort.
That's probably why they loved ADT.
But, don't fake it baby!
Lay the real thing on me.
Thank you.
KC
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Re: TAXMAN (revised mix + Rain + more)

Post by Mixerrog »

I hope they dump the fake double track vocals & give us the real vocals for Revolver with all instrument splits possible to the sides for a more balanced stereo IMO.

Rog
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