Mirror Spock, Ebbetts and others: How do they measure up for you, now?

[Patrick Healy]

As in, all three needledropped many of the same pressings and cuttings (e.g both Dr Ebbetts and ptbhal I know did a full Japanese Red Wax Mono needledrop set and Mirror Spock did at least Sgt. Pepper from that set), so which needledropper is best?

[cliftdean74]

As in, all three needledropped many of the same pressings and cuttings (e.g both Dr Ebbetts and ptbhal I know did a full Japanese Red Wax Mono needledrop set and Mirror Spock did at least Sgt. Pepper from that set), so which needledropper is best?

The answer to which needle dropper is the best is subjective. DESS, pbthal, Mirror Spock, Millennium Remasters..... The best way to find the one you yourself like best is to pick a few records that they've all done and start comparing with your own ears. Otherwise, it's just opinions.

That's my opinion

[Kwai Chang]

I know I've said these before but... what about Mirror Spock and pbthal needledrops?

PBthal is a purist. I don't think he adjusts ANYTHING except Hardware, and matrix numbers. I must admit that it is theoretically possible to get sonic supremacy from the most unlikely places. Why? Because the matrix gets worn and/or aged based on machinery, storage conditions, frequency of use, accidental damage, digitizing methods(where applicable), handling care, VU Meter philosophy, as well as the other processes that occur in subsequent steps, solid state vs. valve, RIAA EQ curve, medium integrity, Lathe make/model, lacquer cutting touch, groove width vs. depth, plating, stamper over usage, pressing machine/stamper wear, cooling times, inner sleeve composition, and maybe 50 other factors however MINOR...It adds up to a logical fact that no two discs are identical...not even consecutive units from the production line. How could they be? There is no reason to believe that the first record pressed is the best of the run, although, that would be my choice if it were possible to determine such things. Factor in all that goes into a definition like 'vintage' and you will be at the mercy of tracking weight, belt/direct, cartridge/stylus/ sapphire/diamond, anti-skate, pre amp, amplifier, playback monitors, volume, sweet-spot, ET CETERA!!! So much for purity!!! Fact, He is NEVER satisfied...nor, will he ever be. It isn't possible to believe you have found the best pressing of any disc...the best copy of any pressing, the best formulation of any virgin vinyl, melted frisbee, or anything else...all you can judge is the individual attempts of a single copy...against rips of itself with changes in method. It's still not a waste of time. He is discriminating, his ears are very sensitive, his lineage is in a constant state of flux. So, in practical terms it means his '3rd' rip of Led Zeppelin's first album(plum label, UK matrix XYZ, with the 'black ice' lineage, etc.) out performs ANY other iteration that I've heard...especially the one that was not declicked in ANY WAY <------(this was an example that is fictitious, but representative). And son and so forth. AND, why not? He won't be an enthusiast forever. He has at least 12 disciples and a private membership and they mind their own business while speaking an esoteric language fluently. Feedback IS essential. So.....
Back to DESS, Spock, and any ripper that isn't remixing...to Lord Reith, Kenny Saxton, Magoocus, et al...and EVERY other manipulation ever attempted: Isn't this the only real gimmick the music industry has ever had in the first place. It has to be subjective, before it can ever be art, better, remastered, Half-Speed, Audio 5, wide, mono, narrow, dry, flat, atmos, Original, remixed or anything else which would allow for profit(SATISFACTION) to flow from a piece of scotch tape covered in ferrous oxide nano dust that only took 'X hour/minutes/seconds' to 'produce' because EVERYTHING is recorded live and after that...it's about how hot it's served and the posture of the 'server'.
I salute ALL of them because Giles is probably already amazed at his own longevity which is of a known(predictable) usefulness.
Who ordered the Robert Ludwig? Did you need ketchup or jelly?
No, I'm here for the waitress!
KC

If it ever becomes OBJECTIVE, the industry is without function...out of business!

[Ziggy C]

I think the whole subjective comparison analysis, as presented by KC, can be overly simplified even further by just saying, "Ketchup."

Ketchup.

[Patrick Healy]

Regarding Giles I don't think his stereo mixes and mastering are intended for audiophiles. I think they're intended for the iPhone-and-headphones generation who will go, "I've heard great things about the Beatles... I wonder what they're like?" And they might find it dissuading if stuff is hard-panned from lack of remixing, or there's loads of tape noise from lack of NR, or it's quieter than they're other stuff from lack of compression

[Ziggy C]

Regarding Giles I don't think his stereo mixes and mastering are intended for audiophiles. I think they're intended for the iPhone-and-headphones generation...

I'd disagree in that the professional studio mixing set-up often has at least a couple sets of speakers going. This is so that a mix can be created for the so-called iPhone/headset (probably listened to with studio headphones during the mix,) the car, and finally the home system. I'd doubt that Giles focuses on just one listening milieu as he performs his "magic." I think the issues that some us are pointing out are simply due to the fact that he's not his dad.

[The Milky Bar Kid]

Dr Ebbetts did some albums with centred vocals, for the '63 twin-track stereo songs and the Rubber Soul era songs. Somebody here would have those and could share them, I s'pose. It's tempting to think he'd mixed those on the fly, skillfully turning the balance knob on his amplifier or something like that as he digitised the tracks from vinyl (but I might be wrong to assume that this was his technique).

[Kusaywa]

The Ebbetts releases still serve a purpose, especially the US releases. Where else can you hear the Dexter version of Rubber Soul? Or the US Magical Mystery Tour with a different version of I Am The Walrus and several mock stereo mixes. Neither of these were in the Capitol Boxes. Or Please Please Me with the Mock Stereo Love Me Do & P.S.

[Patrick Healy]

Regarding Giles I don't think his stereo mixes and mastering are intended for audiophiles. I think they're intended for the iPhone-and-headphones generation...

I'd disagree in that the professional studio mixing set-up often has at least a couple sets of speakers going. This is so that a mix can be created for the so-called iPhone/headset (probably listened to with studio headphones during the mix,) the car, and finally the home system. I'd doubt that Giles focuses on just one listening milieu as he performs his "magic." I think the issues that some us are pointing out are simply due to the fact that he's not his dad.

I'm not saying he focuses exclusively on teenagers I'm saying his mastering, especially, is less audiophile-oriented than we would like it to be. Sorry if that was unclear.

[RLester]

Some terrific thoughts here, thanks all.