So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

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ksantus
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by ksantus »

Lord Reith wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:02 pm
ksantus wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:59 pm - Why haven't we heard the entire "Step Inside Love" demo from Paul now that it has surfaced?
Which demo is that?
- What happened to all the video/audio footage that Ron Howard aquired for the "Eight Days A Week" project?
It went into a big cupboard with a sign "Never To Be Seen Or Heard Again"?
billylentz wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:09 pm While of course I wanted more, I don´t see the music industry investing too much on large scale projects. They hold it all for decades, and now it´s just not worth investing on it anymore.

What I see as most likely at the moment are redundant new editions on different formats, in the line of "for the first time on vinyl", "newly remixed to mono for the first time from the original studio master tapes whatever that means", "with a new previously unedited essay by Dhani Harrison", "for the first time with the original unpeeled butcher cover", that sort of thing.
Sadly I think you are probably on the money there. Granted this is a big step up from keyrings and badges, but it is now more about the packaging than the material.
fabwill wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:44 pm My dream Peter Jackson project would be some kind of Beatles VR that transports you to early 60s Hamburg, a bit like the Abba experience. Didn't John tell us we 'shoulda been there'? Who here wouldn't pay to see that?
Yes to this! I'd settle even just for an animated Star Club.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Fast lucky »

To have the 1963 demo of What Goes On would be nice too !
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Ziggy C »

Still playing Devil's Advocate....

Consider that Charlie Chaplin, an undeniable pioneer and genius who invented many revolutionary filming techniques to carry his stories to the big screen, destroyed most of the work-in-progress cuts of his films. All the outtakes were not just cut/edited out of the final film, they were burned so that the only version people would ever see would be the finished version. As I recall, Stanley Kubrick adopted the same practice.

And so it should be with all the great musical works we love. Whatever was officially released is the final word. That's what we should be happy with. The outtakes, alternates, etc. should all have been destroyed. In fact, I'm imploring right here and now: anyone reading this who is in any way affiliated with assembling these SDE's, PLEASE stop!! PLEASE!! Do us all, and yourselves, and your bank accounts a favor and just throw it all into the fire. (In this instance, fire should be pronounced with a heavy Bostonian accent, like, "faah!")

In the case of the earlier BBC performances by The Beatles, that's exactly what happened. The tapes were wiped and re-used. Then wiped again and re-used again. Rinse and repeat. Clamoring for the sounds of our favorite bands with their pants literally down at their ankles is simply sick. I wish I'd never heard a single BBC broadcast, nor a single demo or alternate version. Why should anyone care about "He Said He Said"? Why do I need to hear the direction that "I'm Looking Through You" nearly took? Where's the pleasure in hearing how the two disparate versions of "Strawberry Fields Forever" were married together in blissful harmony? I dunno. It's lost on me. Why would I ever want to hear the 2nd take of "Twist And Shout" so I could discern why the first take was selected? Thankfully, the 2nd take was wiped. And hearing the deliberate placement of feedback at the beginning of "I Feel Fine" for take after take. Ouch!! It was better left as a mystery.

....again, playing Devil's Advocate....the clowns in charge of the archive at EMI have not a care for those of us who dig listening to this stuff, and who know exactly how much more is whimsically, and some would say, cruelly, locked away.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Doug »

Ziggy C wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:14 pm Consider that Charlie Chaplin, an undeniable pioneer and genius who invented many revolutionary filming techniques to carry his stories to the big screen, destroyed most of the work-in-progress cuts of his films. All the outtakes were not just cut/edited out of the final film, they were burned so that the only version people would ever see would be the finished version.
I don't know where you got that from. The Mutual outtakes survive to this day at the BFI, and the "Unknown Chaplin" series showed plenty of outtakes, including entire sequences cut out of "Shoulder Arms" and "City Lights."
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Fast lucky »

@ Ziggy C

The thing is we are diehard fans not of just another group but of THE group which changed and defined everything. Any other group won´t come close to the sole of the Beatles boots. So yes, anything done / tried by them is a piece of history in the making and worth gold. Why do you think there is a lawsuit for tapes that were supposed to be trown in the dustbin 60 years ago ? Thanks to Geoff for being more clever than his bosses. I hope to be able to lusten to that tape before I won´t be on Earth anymore.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Lord Reith »

Fast lucky wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:34 pm @ Ziggy C

The thing is we are diehard fans not of just another group but of THE group which changed and defined everything. Any other group won´t come close to the sole of the Beatles boots. So yes, anything done / tried by them is a piece of history in the making and worth gold. Why do you think there is a lawsuit for tapes that were supposed to be trown in the dustbin 60 years ago ? Thanks to Geoff for being more clever than his bosses. I hope to be able to lusten to that tape before I won´t be on Earth anymore.
I think that is an interesting case in point, because if that tape had always resided in the AR archive then we STILL would never have heard it. They don't want to get it back to release it, they want to get it back to stop anyone else releasing it.

If they DO succeed in getting it back, it'll go in the same drawer as all the other stuff from the early years... especially stuff with Pete Best.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Fast lucky »

I agree on your comment save that they included stuff like that in the Anthology, and the unwritten story is that Love Me Do (test session) already came from Geoff. So I hope that a broader project that would suit the tape might lead to a release of the tape.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Ziggy C »

Doug wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:08 pm
Ziggy C wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:14 pm Consider that Charlie Chaplin, an undeniable pioneer and genius who invented many revolutionary filming techniques to carry his stories to the big screen, destroyed most of the work-in-progress cuts of his films. All the outtakes were not just cut/edited out of the final film, they were burned so that the only version people would ever see would be the finished version.
I don't know where you got that from. The Mutual outtakes survive to this day at the BFI, and the "Unknown Chaplin" series showed plenty of outtakes, including entire sequences cut out of "Shoulder Arms" and "City Lights."
This is a well-documented fact.

Unknown Chaplin mentions several times within that the existence of the outtakes they included were because Chaplin had chosen to keep them to himself; never to be shown or broadcast to the world. And they are extremely limited to just a few of his best films, and a couple projects he was working on. The Mutual outtakes survive only because they were pirated; Chaplin had ordered them all destroyed. But they certainly state in the documentary that Chaplin destroyed pretty much all of the extraneous footage, choosing only to keep and release the final product. The existence of the minimal outtakes shown in Unknown Chaplin is an aberration rather than the norm.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Lord Reith »

Fast lucky wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:54 pm I agree on your comment save that they included stuff like that in the Anthology, and the unwritten story is that Love Me Do (test session) already came from Geoff. So I hope that a broader project that would suit the tape might lead to a release of the tape.
I don't think Apple are at all interested in the early stuff. The BBC set was only released because the copyrights were about to expire, and it didn't sell very well so I think we'[ve seen the last of that. But they should be making some of the early stuff available as downloads at least. It has just been way too long, ridiculously long.

Re Chaplin i didn't know that, but they didn't keep film outtakes in those days anyway. Everything was burned after the master negative was cut together. I can't recall any films prior to maybe the 1970s where there is outtake material. But destroying personal artifacts is a pretty common thing among famous people. Peter Sellers spent his whole life filming stuff but towards the end of his life had begun burning all of it. He was maybe half way through when he died suddenly, otherwise we wouldn't have all those great home movies of his life. But the acclaimed science fiction author John Wyndham specified in his will that all his personal letters and papers were to be destroyed after his death, and he succeeded. I guess he wanted to preserve his privacy, but it has meant that virtually nothing is known about his personal life to the point where he is a complete mystery.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by BDJ »

"the acclaimed science fiction author John Wyndham specified in his will that all his personal letters and papers were to be destroyed after his death, and he succeeded."

????

His letters to his partner, Grace Wilson, are held in the Archives of the University of Liverpool. He wrote at length of his struggles with his conscience, his doubts about humanity and his fears of the inevitability of further war. He also wrote passionately about his love for her and his fears that he would be so tainted she would not be able to love him when he returned. Some of his unsold work was published posthumously.
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