So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

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Lord Reith
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Lord Reith »

BDJ wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:52 am "the acclaimed science fiction author John Wyndham specified in his will that all his personal letters and papers were to be destroyed after his death, and he succeeded."

????

His letters to his partner, Grace Wilson, are held in the Archives of the University of Liverpool. He wrote at length of his struggles with his conscience, his doubts about humanity and his fears of the inevitability of further war. He also wrote passionately about his love for her and his fears that he would be so tainted she would not be able to love him when he returned. Some of his unsold work was published posthumously.
Ahh well there you go. I guess he couldn't account for letters he'd sent to Grace. But his own personal archive was destroyed.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Ziggy C »

Speaking of Chaplin. True story:

Way back in the 1940's...say, 1947, a movie called, "The Bishop's Wife," hit the big screen starring Cary Grant, Loretta Young, David Niven, and directed by my grandfather, who was also nominated for an Academy Award for the film. It was not without its problems during production. The script, as written, featured Cary Grant as the Bishop, and David Niven as Dudley, the angel. It wasn't working. Samuel Goldwyn sacked the original director and sought out my grandfather, who was in Europe at the time on another film project. Goldwyn convinced him to come back to America and figure out this film and fix it. Grandpa saw right away what the problem was, and immediately swapped Cary Grant and David Niven's roles. The film was saved, and has become more than the sum of its parts.

Well, shortly after the premiere, Grandpa was relaxing at home, when he received a phone call. He answered it. A voice on the other end said, "Hello. Mr. ______, this is Charlie Chaplin, I loved your picture,..." Grandpa thought it a prank and hung up straight away. The phone rang again. Same voice, same phrase, same response. He hung up on the guy. Thought nothing of it. Prank callers were not uncommon, even in the 1940's.

That weekend, while brunching at the local deli in Hollywood, Grandpa gets a tap on the shoulder. He turns around to see who it is. It's Chaplin. Startled, Grandpa gets up from his seat. Chaplin gives him a big hug and, tells him he's been trying to call him, and exclaims how he LOVED "The Bishop's Wife" and extends a heartfelt congratulations. The two spoke for a bit more. I have no idea what about, as that part has been lost to history.

Anyway, even though a couple generations removed, and zilch to do with the Beatles, that's my Charlie Chaplin story.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Ziggy C »

....as for Grandpa and Hollywood...

He kept reels of his films at his house. And when he would entertain, which was often (he had a knack for bringing interesting people together from different walks of life), he would often set up the projector and run one of his films. And then, as it played, he would leave the room because he didn't really like watching his own work in this way. But my Dad caught him on several occasions, peeking at the screen from down the hallway leading to the projection room.

Outtakes? They only exist in the form of 8mm silent home movies that Grandpa filmed himself on the set. These are treasures. Most of them are in color and date back to the mid-1930's. My father donated them to the Academy Of Motion picture Arts And Sciences on the condition that they be fully restored and that he receive pristine copies on DVD. They did, and we did. I have all this stuff which should not exist, but does. My father holds the keys to whatever it gets used in. And it does turn up from time to time when pertinent to a documentary, or to an extra feature on a DVD.

These films show many of the Hollywood elite from the 30's through the 50's at the prime of their lives, and in glorious color. The films include outtakes and setting up of shots and a lot of screwing around behind the scenes. Absolute treasures. Color footage of Deanna Durbin, Douglas Fairbanks, Leopold Stokowski (who became a close friend of my grandfather's,) as well as many of the German movie-making exiles who were fortunate (along with my grandfather) to find a home in Hollywood after being so viciously pursued and lives ruined by you-know-who in Berlin in the years leading up to WWII.

Back to the subject of SDE's and rare audio. I make an analogy to rare footage such as I've described, and which I have here at home.

I'd never consider letting this stuff out. For a number of reasons. First and foremost: it's just wrong. I'll share it with friends from time to time when I entertain, and only if it comes up. Because, geez, its home movies. Not your usual run of the mill home movies, but its still home movies. Not the kind of stuff you unleash online in a huge tranche. It's private. I don't mind describing it. But the footage itself is Grandpa's private footage. It would be disrespectful to simply put it all out there. This is how I feel about Beatle outtakes, alternate versions, etc. Yes, the stuff exists. But it's private. It shouldn't be out there at all. The only reason we've heard (and loved) so much of it is due to leaks within the framework of those who were entrusted to keep it private. It's not a great "holding back of the goods." It's just private. And it would be considered not a loss, but tremendously respectful if it could stay that way.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Doug »

I think your argument would be more valid if you were discussing home recordings instead of studio outtakes. The latter aren't "private" - they're preserved works-in-progress of music that changed the world, and, as such, are worthy of study by future generations.

I've been re-listening to the King Crimson boxes recently, and they have a much better idea. Put it out. Dylan, obviously, has the same mindset, not to mention the people in charge of the Elvis and Hendrix archives. The reputation of those artists hasn't suffered because of the availability of their session tapes and live recordings.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Ziggy C »

Point taken, Doug,

As a voracious consumer of this kind of extra material, I also would have hoped that the minders of The Beatles' archive would take the same approach as DGM, Dylan, or the folks handling the Jethro Tull and Yes archives. It's only recently that the Pink Floyd camp has jumped into the fray. A number of artists, such as The Beach Boys, have seen fit to release sessions and whatnot, not for the fans, but to extend the copyright so the music doesn't fall into the public domain.

The jury is out with regards to Jimi's material. We know that there is a whole bunch of unreleased studio sessions in the vault, including the evolution of both the long bluesy and short rocking versions of Voodoo Chile/Voodoo Child (Slight Return), and nearly all of the Are You Experienced tracks in multiple takes. Yet Janie and John have, until recently, been content to foist the same bottom-of-the-barrel latter day Jimi incomplete studio stuff. Not bad material. But there's just so much still in the vault, both studio and LIVE. Royal Albert Hall? Yeah, I've asked them; they keep coming back with their tired "unresolved copyright" answer. New York Pop? A complete version of Jimi's Woodstock set has still never been officially released because they have some wild hair about not issuing the two Larry Lee tunes.

But I do get your distinction about studio sessions vs home recordings. And it makes sense. But things are not as cut and dried. Consider the control that Fripp has on the KC studio material. He has tentacles everywhere, rooting out and shutting off any unauthorized material, studio or not. This is because he is one of the few artists who smartly retained control over all of his music. If he wanted to destroy it, he'd be within his rights. Other artists are at the mercy of the record companies because the record companies own the music. The Beatles don't own their music, do they? Paul is still, year by year, as copyrights expire, trying to buy back and assume control over the catalog. But it's a really long haul. If artists had 100% control over their own material, then they could certainly keep it all unreleased, under the guise of "home recordings." Even if it was recorded in the studio.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Megazeti »

Seems the focus are LP format first and CD/digital second.
The CDs length reflects a LPs length so that's a waste of 20 min blank space.
Remember the old days when any CD by any artist nudged 70-80 mins.
Dunno about SDE books ok you can get them digitally but if you want the SDE discs physically you're conned into a book if you don't want it as well. Now if the each CD was near full I might be interested.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by MrMurphMcgee »

Ziggy C wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:24 am Speaking of Chaplin. True story:

Way back in the 1940's...say, 1947, a movie called, "The Bishop's Wife," hit the big screen starring Cary Grant, Loretta Young, David Niven, and directed by my grandfather, who was also nominated for an Academy Award for the film.
Wow. Your grandfather directed some of my favorite films including this one which is near the top of my Christmas movie list.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Vee-Jay »

Ziggy C wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:43 am ....as for Grandpa and Hollywood...

He kept reels of his films at his house. And when he would entertain, which was often (he had a knack for bringing interesting people together from different walks of life), he would often set up the projector and run one of his films. And then, as it played, he would leave the room because he didn't really like watching his own work in this way. But my Dad caught him on several occasions, peeking at the screen from down the hallway leading to the projection room.

Outtakes? They only exist in the form of 8mm silent home movies that Grandpa filmed himself on the set. These are treasures. Most of them are in color and date back to the mid-1930's. My father donated them to the Academy Of Motion picture Arts And Sciences on the condition that they be fully restored and that he receive pristine copies on DVD. They did, and we did. I have all this stuff which should not exist, but does. My father holds the keys to whatever it gets used in. And it does turn up from time to time when pertinent to a documentary, or to an extra feature on a DVD.

These films show many of the Hollywood elite from the 30's through the 50's at the prime of their lives, and in glorious color. The films include outtakes and setting up of shots and a lot of screwing around behind the scenes. Absolute treasures. Color footage of Deanna Durbin, Douglas Fairbanks, Leopold Stokowski (who became a close friend of my grandfather's,) as well as many of the German movie-making exiles who were fortunate (along with my grandfather) to find a home in Hollywood after being so viciously pursued and lives ruined by you-know-who in Berlin in the years leading up to WWII.

Back to the subject of SDE's and rare audio. I make an analogy to rare footage such as I've described, and which I have here at home.

I'd never consider letting this stuff out. For a number of reasons. First and foremost: it's just wrong. I'll share it with friends from time to time when I entertain, and only if it comes up. Because, geez, its home movies. Not your usual run of the mill home movies, but its still home movies. Not the kind of stuff you unleash online in a huge tranche. It's private. I don't mind describing it. But the footage itself is Grandpa's private footage. It would be disrespectful to simply put it all out there. This is how I feel about Beatle outtakes, alternate versions, etc. Yes, the stuff exists. But it's private. It shouldn't be out there at all. The only reason we've heard (and loved) so much of it is due to leaks within the framework of those who were entrusted to keep it private. It's not a great "holding back of the goods." It's just private. And it would be considered not a loss, but tremendously respectful if it could stay that way.
Wow. :o One of my favorite films is Harvey. Such an impressive directing resumé! So cool for you. :D
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by Ziggy C »

"Harvey" is certainly a lot of fun! It still holds up today.

Another one which remains pertinent today, but often flies under the radar, is "No Highway In The Sky," also starring Jimmy Stewart.
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Re: So are we happy with these SDE sets, or do we want more?

Post by vickrose777 »

L.R. I think you said it best the last time we spoke. No matter what they release, anything previously unreleased, we will continue to buy it. I know I will. What's a shame is the blatant decline of Apple's SDE format. Seems like "yesterday" we're getting a Blu ray. Now we get an EP. Two disks worth of material stretched to five.
I was an Anthology baby. I heard that before I heard most of the albums. To me each album is getting their own Anthology now. That's an upside. I'm grateful. I also agree with alot of what I've read here. Peter Jackson has offered publicly to work on the Star Club, and I've never understood why the Beatles themselves have only acknowledged those tapes in a lawsuit. Those tapes are a HUGE piece of the puzzle! You hear Lennon talk about "back then no one could touch us," those tapes are the very end of that era...
I could go on. Yeah, no, I'm happy with it.
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