Running a new quack theory past everybody...

[Lord Reith]

I've been thinking about the Pop Go The Beatles theme, which as everybody knows has been in dispute for many years after Lorne Gibson claimed in 1988 that he and his trio actually recorded it, because supposedly one of The Beatles couldn't get the "Pop! Pop Go The Beatles!" breaks right.

Trouble is, it's plainly obvious that The Beatles are performing it. Ringo's patent drum fills are there, as is almost the entire stock of George's 1963 guitar licks. You can hear Paul scream twice, and there's a harmonica which sounds entirely similar to what John did on I Got To Find My Baby (also in the key of G). So what gives? Was Lorne telling porkies? Misremembering? Suffering from early dementia? But Terry Heneberry when interviewed about the series in 1982, also singled out that track as having taken a long time to record... which tends to lend credence clearwater to Lorne's claims.

But why would they have difficulties? They were a great band after all. Couldn't they just have copied the demo like with How Do You Do It?

This is where I'm now thinking... well, WAS there even a demo? We know the arrangement was by somebody called "Patrick", who was probably a BBC staffer tasked with turning the nursery rhyme into a theme tune. So did he maybe just do what is called a "chart" (simplified sheet music) for The Beatles rather than a demo... or did he just turn up at the session and play it on piano? In either case, that might have presented a problem for them. They couldn't read charts, and they might have had trouble with the breaks if they'd literally never heard the arrangement prior to that.

Also, despite what it says in the books it's now known that the Beatles session was from 2-4pm, not 2-6pm. They were pretty rushed. TLGT came in at 4pm to do their session from 4-6 and the Beatles were due in Walthamstow by 6 (probably 5.30 in order to get changed). Did Lorne arrive early and find The Beatles struggling? In that case TLGT may have recorded a quick take themselves to help The Beatles out, which The Beatles then took a copy of, learnt to play during the week, and then returned on June 1st to record their own version along with the songs for epsides 2 and 3. Following this train of thought, I realised that the sound of the guitars, drums and harmonica on The Beatles version is very similar to the tracks in those two episodes. So maybe this is what happened? That still left 3 days for the new theme to be spliced into the master tape of episode 1 for broadcast on June 4.

Quack quack, that's what I think anyway. So shoot me down in flames, or tell me I'm right... or no jelly bean!

[BDJ]

Just listened to the interview. Lorne Gibson actually says that they (his trio) did their session first, and then came the Beatles. This would move the Beatles to the 4 - 6 pm slot.....

If so, you may wonder why the Gibson trio were still hanging around in the studio when the Beatles were performing? And it would have taken a lot of rearranging recording equipment - and instruments - for the Gibson trio to record the theme tune AFTER the Beatles had done their 4-6 pm slot.

So this scenario does not look very likely. Perhaps Gibson misremembers the order, and the Beatles did their session first. But what else did Gibson misremember?

Gibson says that Harrison found it difficult to play the breaks (where the voice comes in), but that is puzzling.

I think Gibson is probably right that the Beatles had difficulty getting the theme tune right; I would expect that George Harrison would have struggled to play a guitar solo - improvised - for a stretch of a minute or so. George was excellent at playing riffs and solos that he had practiced earlier, but improvising was not his forte. And there is where the Gibson trio may have helped him out, by pointing (whistling, humming....) to some riffs that he could play as the solo in the theme tune.

[Lord Reith]

Perhaps Gibson misremembers the order, and the Beatles did their session first. But what else did Gibson misremember?

The Gibson session was definitely from 4-6, there is documentation of that. He did actually misremember a few other things. He said that The Beatles guested on Side By Side when his band was the resident group (this second series was hosted by Diz Dizley) but they never did. They only appeared on SBS when Karl Denver Trio was the resident group. He also claimed that his band sat in with The Beatles for their numbers on PGTB1 and they sat in on his numbers, which is pretty obviously nonsense. The Lorne Gibson Trio played the worst type of cringeworthy country hokum and is not something The Beatles would have had any interest in or been familiar with. So maybe he made up the story about recording the theme too, I don't know. It's just that I thought it was significant that Terry Heneberry also noted problems with that song.

Still interested to hear people's thoughts.

[Ken_peps]

As a life-long professional musician, I've always felt that that theme was played by The Beatles. There's a bit of a disease with musicians over time (we're all guilty) - you do enough gigs and you actually start to believe you were on more of them than the ones you actually did. Biggest case in point would be drummer Bernard Purdie's (and, to be honest, a handful of other older studio musicians, too) claiming to have overdubbed the drum parts for Ringo, while clearly all the recording session audible evidence alone points to one man - er, Ringo!!!! And I'm not putting down Bernard Purdie's drumming, but he could no more give us the drum fills on "Rain" than Ringo could have given us that incredible groove Purdie plays on Aretha Franklin's record of "Until You Come Back To Me (That's What I'm Gonna Do". I'm in complete agreement with the esteemed Lord Reith on this one.

[Darth Kybiel]

What if it was both bands playing at the same time or a few members of the other group played along but only the Beatles were miced for recording? It could just be partial memory recollection.

[Kwai Chang]

Just as there will be resentment from ANYBODY that has to stand by and watch four Scousers revolutionize the world of music, radio, tv, and live shows...It must really suck to know that they could play any show they wanted. Maybe The Beatles didn't know that a standard hand cranked Jack-In-The-Box plays Pop Goes The Weasel. They should have just used one of those and recorded vocals over it....OR go for the sure thing...BRING IN GEORGE MARTIN. I don't know how they accomplished anything without him. You know what? Save the Weasel for the Mothers Of Invention! We're going to play a show with more birds. Pop Pop Pop Go The Beatles...cheep cheep cheep!
They must have been ultra polite in light of these favors!
I don't think they could function without Martin...
because he could appreciate their whole schedule
and he didn't torture them with such finery.
KC

[stereoman33]

I just want to know what is so difficult to play about that tune?
The guitar lines couldn’t be more basic if they tried

[Mr Bump]

There are a few issues I can think of.

1. Even though the recording might sound like the Beatles in style and execution, this is likely a deliberate thing. If another band recorded the theme song they wouldn't want it to be incongruously out of step with the Beatles' own music. Like if I were doing a theme for a Buddy Holly show, I would adopt his guitar style, not, say, the style of Bob Dylan.

2. The Beatles were generally quite proud of their work. They seldom cheapened themselves on relative trivialities like covering someone else's arrangement of a kid's song. Not impossible that they did, but also not consistent with their usual attitude.

3. BBC and union rules may well have been an obstacle, or raised potential issues. No doubt the BBC had arrangements in place for those paid to do such things on a regular basis. Would they risk backlash by by-passing the usual musicians? (I don't know anything about the group in question, so this is just open speculation.)

4. No mention from the Beatles' own circle that it ever happened.

[Lord Reith]

I just want to know what is so difficult to play about that tune?
The guitar lines couldn’t be more basic if they tried

I think it was the breaks they had trouble with. That little "Pop! Pop Go The Beatles!" bit would have been tricky to get right if they'd never even heard it before. The accents fall on unexpected beats. The rest of it is easy, but the real mystery is who arranged it and how was that conveyed to The Beatles?

It's also possible as Ken_peps says that Lorne Gibson had a phantom memory of the incident. Bobby Graham is another drummer who said he sat in for Ringo at a Beatles session. Now Bobby is possibly my favourite drummer outside of Ringo, but what is all that about? The only time he was in the same studio as The Beatles was - wait for it - for the recording session for Pop Go The Beatles episode 3 on June 1st 1963, as the drummer for Carter Lewis And The Southerners. But that band was booked to record from 9.30 to 11.30am, with The Beatles doing their session after that. This is what he said:

"I did play with The Beatles on one of their Pop Goes the Beatles sessions from the Paris Theatre and that was because the BBC didn't think that Ringo was adaptable enough for what they wanted at the time."

I'm sorry Bobby, but that is not you playing on A Shot Of Rhythm And Blues, Sure To Fall et al from that day. That is indisputably Ringo. So were he and Lorne both mad, or were they trying to weasel some royalties out of someone? Lorne's claim to having recorded the PGTB theme seems to have been enough to put the wind up Apple and seemingly convince them to leave it off both official BBC releases. Maybe Bobby wanted a bit of the action too?

[BDJ]

As a life-long professional musician, I've always felt that that theme was played by The Beatles. There's a bit of a disease with musicians over time (we're all guilty) - you do enough gigs and you actually start to believe you were on more of them than the ones you actually did. Biggest case in point would be drummer Bernard Purdie's (and, to be honest, a handful of other older studio musicians, too) claiming to have overdubbed the drum parts for Ringo, while clearly all the recording session audible evidence alone points to one man - er, Ringo!!!! And I'm not putting down Bernard Purdie's drumming, but he could no more give us the drum fills on "Rain" than Ringo could have given us that incredible groove Purdie plays on Aretha Franklin's record of "Until You Come Back To Me (That's What I'm Gonna Do". I'm in complete agreement with the esteemed Lord Reith on this one.

It has been established that Purdie DID play overdubs on a handful of Beatles tracks; on the American version of some of "Tony Sheridan's and the Beatles" songs.

see:

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/bdj/ ... 4_24-08_00