EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Discuss official releases and re-issues. The only links allowed here are to the Beatles YouTube channel or other band-sanctioned platforms.
User avatar
bobzilla
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:56 pm
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by bobzilla »

This is a great read. Thank you Lord Reith and Beatles4you!
User avatar
Lord Reith
Posts: 4608
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:22 am
Location: BBC House
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 3976 times

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by Lord Reith »

Doug wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:31 pm
Lord Reith wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:27 am - the Nagras didn't roll at the same time except for an overlap of about one minute, where Peter Sutton would start rolling the second machine a little bit before the first one ran out (except for one particular day when he recorded different things on each).
This suggests they were using the two recorders in tandem to avoid missing audio (which would make sense), but anyone who's listened to the Nagras knows that isn't true.
That's what I thought so I am a little confused. How many Nagra rolls have been bootlegged? I've only ever collected the compilations. Maybe there was a change in tactic after a certain point? The section about Peter Suttton suggests that the whole process was highly experimental. I like the bit about how they planned to turn the cameras towards Peter and get him to do the clapperboard at the start of each shot, but gave quickly up. No wonder it took PJ's guys a year to synch the film up to the sound. Imagine trying to synch all that audio to a much smaller amount of film with no indication of what goes where. Nightmare.
User avatar
Lord Reith
Posts: 4608
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:22 am
Location: BBC House
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 3976 times

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by Lord Reith »

Just to clarify the synch process as I have come to understand it (correct me if I'm wrong):

- the camera sent a beep to the audio channel of the Nagra when it started up, to indicate the position of the first film frame (however, there was no indication on the audio which piece of film it was). This was recorded on the audio track(?)

- as the camera rolled, it also sent a continuous synchronisation pulse to the other channel of the Nagra, to keep the two synchronised. This has bugged me for decades. Tape recorders don't keep synch without some sort of synchronisation pulse, and yet this is the first time I have ever heard it mentioned in relation to LIB.

- Presumably when the bootleggers dubbed the Nagras, they just took one channel of the stereo and ignored the sych track.

However, they talk about some audio not having a synchronisation pulse because the two Nagras operated in overlap mode while the two cameras each sent their synch pulse to a different Nagra. Now that I come to write this down, it seems completely mad. Surely the point of having two nagras was to have one for each camera? Why in heck would they devise a system to send a synch pulse to a recorder they knew would only be on half the time?
User avatar
Lord Reith
Posts: 4608
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:22 am
Location: BBC House
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 3976 times

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by Lord Reith »

BDJ wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:00 pm
Doug wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:31 pm
Lord Reith wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:27 am - the Nagras didn't roll at the same time except for an overlap of about one minute, where Peter Sutton would start rolling the second machine a little bit before the first one ran out (except for one particular day when he recorded different things on each).
This suggests they were using the two recorders in tandem to avoid missing audio (which would make sense), but anyone who's listened to the Nagras knows that isn't true.
And there are also times when the 2 recorders both run but record different microphones.
There's an explanation of that bit. Apparently Peter was experimenting with recording setups.
Women there don't treat you mean, in Abilene
zaval80
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:19 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by zaval80 »

Lord Reith wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:15 pm How many Nagra rolls have been bootlegged?
Remember the talk about the 126 CD from Germany on BZ about 10 years ago? Beatles4Ever got it and tried to sync A and B rolls from that. He posted a sample which had lots of diginoise.
Doug
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:44 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 33 times
Contact:

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by Doug »

Lord Reith wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:26 pm Just to clarify the synch process as I have come to understand it (correct me if I'm wrong):

- the camera sent a beep to the audio channel of the Nagra when it started up, to indicate the position of the first film frame (however, there was no indication on the audio which piece of film it was). This was recorded on the audio track(?)
Yes. That's right.
Lord Reith wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:26 pm - as the camera rolled, it also sent a continuous synchronisation pulse to the other channel of the Nagra, to keep the two synchronised. This has bugged me for decades. Tape recorders don't keep synch without some sort of synchronisation pulse, and yet this is the first time I have ever heard it mentioned in relation to LIB.
There's a sync pulse on the Nagra. That's why Apple needed the original tapes back, instead of using the bootlegs of them.
Lord Reith wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:26 pm - Presumably when the bootleggers dubbed the Nagras, they just took one channel of the stereo and ignored the sych track.
They were mono recordings and, yes, of course the bootlegger ignored the sync track. I can't figure out why they would have experimented with different mike sources for the material recorded on the third - if they needed to intercut the audio recordings that would have made the material quite useless.
Lord Reith wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:26 pm However, they talk about some audio not having a synchronisation pulse because the two Nagras operated in overlap mode while the two cameras each sent their synch pulse to a different Nagra. Now that I come to write this down, it seems completely mad. Surely the point of having two nagras was to have one for each camera? Why in heck would they devise a system to send a synch pulse to a recorder they knew would only be on half the time?
I think the Nagra A rolls were more like the audio equivalent of a "master shot" - perhaps there only to pull audio from if they really needed to.
User avatar
Debbiebootleg
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 3:41 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by Debbiebootleg »

Great article. Now everything seems more right.
I'm actually listening both A & B rolls. and what the article says is a lie because the two tapes weren't continous, they absolutely recorded simultaneously, the audio beep isn't also all the times on Roll A. But the fact that even the editor of the new movie comments in that narrative makes me wondering if the tapes the fans got are 100% different. The Camera operators thing is interesting, would like to hear more histories from Les & Tony. The Black & White workprints is definitely what has been bootleged over the years.

Also they say the date of the mysterious session is February 2 for some reason.
snrub
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:18 am
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: EVERYTHING YOU COULD EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PJ's "GET BACK"

Post by snrub »

Interesting, it was a Sunday so that would explain why Heather was present again just like the previous Sunday. So after the Friday Jan. 31st session, they took Saturday off as Paul shaved his beard, then the next day they got together again?
Post Reply