LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Bootleg audio discussion for anything John, Paul, George and Ringo
Doug
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by Doug »

"There was only one camera and one nagra recorder running on the 2nd..."

There had to be two cameras running. George's "are you recording our conversation?" comment is seen on both the Peter Jackson film and the "Ballad of John & Yoko" promo from two different angles.
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by Davenicks »

"Sometimes the camera rolls themselves had audio." Could you clarify what you mean by this?

Thanks!

Dave in Nashville
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by skynet »

Davenicks wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:59 pm "Sometimes the camera rolls themselves had audio." Could you clarify what you mean by this?

Thanks!

Dave in Nashville
my 2 cents here:

16mm film (correct me if i am wrong but "Get Back" was originally scoped to be a TV special, then the afterthought from the Beatles themselves was that this to be filmed in rather 35 millimeters for movie theaters) have its own "optical" sound-track, is my understanding (my knowledge is mostly empirical) is to record ambient sound. Although most 16mm movies were shot without sound, there is a way to tell if film has audio. If 16mm film has sprockets on both sides, it is a silent film. If it has sprockets on one side and a rust colored strip that runs along the edge of the reel, it have sound; This strip denotes the magnetic portion where the audio is stored and it will run alongside the reel. For the 16mm, the magnetic strip will be on the opposite side of the sprockets. hence it is possible that the sweeping sound is not just and "add-on" that PJ did, it is actual audio from that day, just enhanced, it is quite possible.

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Eric_Manchester
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by Eric_Manchester »

What you say would be correct for 16mm news cameras. If they had sound, they often recorded on a mag stripe on the raw film stock, and they usually shot on reversal film.

For a project like this, they would shoot on negative film and record the audio on reel-to-reel Nagra recorders, just like any studio-made production. The camera and recorder are locked with a crystal sync. Audio would later be transferred from the reel-to-reel Narga tapes to full-coat 16mm mag stock for editorial purposes.

The film running through the cameras is negative with perforations along both sides (mainly for stability in the gate). After editing, the work print picture and audio would be conformed by a negative cutter and picture and sound track negatives would be made. Positive prints would then be struck from those negatives. That final positive print has a sound track along one edge and sproket holes on the other.
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by skynet »

Eric_Manchester wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:42 pm What you say would be correct for 16mm news cameras. If they had sound, they often recorded on a mag stripe on the raw film stock, and they usually shot on reversal film.

For a project like this, they would shoot on negative film and record the audio on reel-to-reel Nagra recorders, just like any studio-made production. The camera and recorder are locked with a crystal sync. Audio would later be transferred from the reel-to-reel Narga tapes to full-coat 16mm mag stock for editorial purposes.

The film running through the cameras is negative with perforations along both sides (mainly for stability in the gate). After editing, the work print picture and audio would be conformed by a negative cutter and picture and sound track negatives would be made. Positive prints would then be struck from those negatives. That final positive print has a sound track along one edge and sproket holes on the other.
Thanks for the explanation Eric, i think that helps to clarify the matter and also i learned something new today, so i appreciate that :)
DVWerks
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by DVWerks »

DVWerks wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:36 am It's most likely that audio was created for the documentary. There are definitely moments throughout the documentary where sound effects not present on the Nagras or studio tapes are heard. Just part of the process of turning edited material into a cohesive film, even for a documentary.
As an example of what I was talking about, listen to Peter Jackson's example of cleaning up the Nagra recordings at 1:23:30 in the Things We Said Today interview:
https://youtu.be/QSLb7cpHy00?t=5010

In the "Music and Background" example, there are sound effects that almost certainly were not isolated from the Nagra. In the wide shot, a person is walking on the left of the screen and footsteps have been added. They enhanced the sound of John moving his box of cigarettes and added some paper shuffling sound which seems to indicate what Paul is doing in the foreground.

There are going to be subtle added sound effects like this (known as foley in film parlance) throughout the film.
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by Dial222 »

Doug wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:05 pm Hi, guys

DDSI first came out in 1994 (reprinted in 1997 as "Get Back"), and we were working mostly from bootleg and whatever tapes we could find. Obviously, those numbers are long outdated.

The "Complete Get Back Sessions" book was in 2001, and was the first time the full set of Nagras was analyzed. The DDSI numbers there are wholly new, but there's a cross-reference to the numbers from the earlier book.

The listings in the "910's Guide" books should correlate to one of those two books, depending on when any particular edition came out.

The final edition of "DDSI" was in 2007. That's the source you should be using, as it corrected some earlier errors. It's also almost completely in-sync with the numbers used for "New Blue Soap."
The only alteration is moving the Oh Darling demo to the 16th as detailed in PJ Get Back
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by Dial222 »

enriquelu wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:42 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:32 pm Yes, "Oh Darling" should be moved to the correct day. Ironically, we HAD it on a different day in the original DDSI, and I moved it back, figuring it was unlikely Paul would show up by himself, record 10 minutes of "Oh Darling" and then go home. Unlikely or not, though, that's exactly what happened. Luckily, this comes at the end of a session, so renumbering it doesn't affect anything else.

Enriquelu, keep in mind that performances in DDSI are missing from NBS because he was only including the Nagra material. Those are in the "Studio" set he put out.

Has anyone noticed any new audio in the PJ documentary? I guess if there's anything in there it will have to be designated by an "a" or "b" after the DDSI number.
we are analyzing PJ's documentaries, but that is going to take a long time. So far I have only analyzed part of day 2 and it has a very complex edit. It is not in chronological order and is made up of many small pieces. But we move on
Wait until you get to 6th Jan, it's a bloody mess that pics stuff from the 2nd and the 8th of Jan
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by Dial222 »

kolive wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:50 am
dumbchops wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:31 pm

My progress was noted on BZ on a daily basis. Unfortunately for me those notes are lost. But I can confirm that PC did have a several instances of repeated material which I eliminated.

I saved many of the notes, would you like them in some way?
I could put them here, but their rather long...
Since the the tracklists are interspersed.
I'm also trying to document PJ, so if you were able to stick your notes on a google drive?
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Re: LET'S UNIFY CRITERIA ON "GET BACK SESSIONS"

Post by Doug »

DVWerks wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:32 am It's most likely that audio was created for the documentary. There are definitely moments throughout the documentary where sound effects not present on the Nagras or studio tapes are heard.
I noticed that. I think it's a trick to help disguise the fact that so much of what we're seeing isn't synched at all. Adding sound onto images of George striking a match, or Ringo blowing out cigarette smoke helps fool the viewer into thinking the surrounding shots are also in sync.
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