PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Discuss official releases and re-issues. The only links allowed here are to the Beatles YouTube channel or other band-sanctioned platforms.
MrBellamy
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by MrBellamy »

Hi -- great detail. Love it!

I believe a similar analysis was done for the Imagine box. Could that write-up be posted here too?

Cheers!
mikec
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by mikec »

MrBellamy wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:48 pm Hi -- great detail. Love it!

I believe a similar analysis was done for the Imagine box. Could that write-up be posted here too?

Cheers!
Thank you very much! The Imagine Box set review was made in advance without having in hand (at that time) all the discs and not so deep as this one, I think it needs to be reworked in the future. (if the link is not allowed, let me know and I will delete it, thanks)
http://webgrafikk.com/blog/john-lennon/ ... whats-new/
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by mikec »

CURIOSITIES AND ERRORS IN THE 2021 EDITIONS OF JOHN LENNON'S “PLASTIC ONO BAND”:
By Mike Carrera

-In the 2 LP version, the track list written on the Out-takes inner sleeve does not correspond to the takes listed on the labels or what you actually hear on the vinyl.
The wrong track list corresponds to the RAW STUDIO MIXES instead of the OUT-TAKES ULTIMATE MIXES:

Mother/Take 91
Hold On/Take 18
I Found Out/Take 7
Working Class Hero/Take 10
Isolation/Take 1
Remember/Take 1
Love/Take 9
Well Well Well/Take 5
Look At Me/Take 3
God/Take 1
My Mummy’s Dead/Take 2


2021 2LP edition, inner sleeve:
Image

2021 2LP edition, labels:
Image
___________________________
Remember to update your information regarding “Take 1” of Instant Karma as part of the “Out-Takes” which is actually Take 5 again, both in the 2-CD version, the box set or digital.
For some reason it appeared incorrectly as “Take 1” in the official track list published all over the world (fixed partially a few days ago in some places), or the art on the back of the box set or on the label of the 2-CD version; and it even appears the same way in the digital version and on platforms like Spotify (it appears correctly in the book and booklet).
Image
___________________________

COLD TURKEY MISTERY:
-In the book that accompanies the Deluxe Edition, it is described on pages 26 and 27 that the Master Take of “Cold Turkey” was 26 (of a first session on September 25, 1969, with overdubs on September 28 and 29 September, and October 5, 1969) and supposedly that Take 26 is the one we hear on the Out-takes CD with the overdub made on September 28, although there’s a possibility that it is not Take 26 but a new take of a completely different session done on the 28th (according to the notes).

-The information is contradicted on page 105 of the same book (or page 16 on the booklet of the 2 CD version). On the Out-takes CD what we actually have is Take 1, but from two different sessions: September 25th and 28th. Take 26 is no longer mentioned. Take 1 included in this collection is on the official track list published around the world, in addition to the back artwork of the box.

-On page 104 the information on pages 26 and 27 is contradicted as well, mentioning that Take 1 is the master, not 26. Completely ignoring “Take 2”, which is included twice in the box.

-On pages 112 and 113, the official track list published worldwide and on the back art of the box is completely contradicted (especially on the Raw Studio Discs), as "Cold Turkey Take 2” (in its various overdub stages) has been erased from the map; now ALL tracks are "Takes 1"; when in fact the RAW STUDIO CDs present the master takes in their preliminary versions, in this case, the master take of “Cold Turkey” would be number 2 (an edition of Take 1) as it appears in the official track list; however the book presents different information from one chapter to another and it is notorious that it was written by several authors, all with different information and sources were never verified.

The entire September 25 session (with 26 takes) was mistakenly scrapped in 1972, so there is no option to check if Take 26 became a new Take 1 in a subsequent session on the 28th to add overdubs to it. What we could think is that what is called “TAKE 1” here was marked on the tape box of the session as “MASTER I. REDUCTION”, and what we know as “TAKE 2” was marked as “MASTER 2. BEST”. Time will tell maybe.
______________________________________
I have seen in some places the question if the information and dates that were published in our review a few weeks ago are correct, because some do not correspond to information previously published or to the one that now comes in the Super Deluxe box book. Our dates correspond to those marked on the original tapes, here is a brief example:

WORKING CLASS HERO
According to the information written on the tape boxes E99697-8T and E99698-8T, twelve takes of this song were recorded on September 26, 1970, as can be seen on pages 45, 53 and 57 of the book that accompanies the Deluxe Box.

Image

However, on page 52 the official “recording sheet” of the studios is shown, and date 26 was crossed out and changed to the 27th instead.
Image

The date of the 27th appears as well on page 57 described as the official one for this song, contradicting the photos of the original tape box dated the 26th on the same page; but on the previous page, 56, in the footnote the following information is included:
“Opposite: boxes containing the 8-Track multitracks used to create the Ultimate Mix Master (left) and Ultimate Mixes Out-Takes (right), recorded at EMI Recording Studios, 26 September 1970.”

So, 26 or 27? Too many contradictions in just two pages.

To further contradict the information, on the inner sleeve of the 2 LP edition of this new collection (which mistakenly includes the RAW STUDIO MIXES tracks), it shows:
Working Class Hero Take 10. 26 Sept 1970.
Image

You might think that the recording engineer mistakenly wrote the date of the 26th once, but twice on different boxes? Another theory could be that the spare space on the E99697-8T tape that only had Take 61 of “Mother”, recorded on the 26th was reused, and on the 27th the same tape was used to work on “Working Class Hero” recording the first nine takes; however, the next tape E99698-8T with Takes 10-12 (and three additional takes of “Mother” and one take of “I Found Out”) is also dated September 26th. (The next tape, E99699-8T with the rest of the “I Found Out” session already includes the date of September 27th).

Similar case with Take 64 of "Mother", registered as recorded on September 26 in the original tape box but the information published says that it was recorded on the 27th. Clearly there are errors in the documentation of these sessions ("Working Class Hero" and “Mother”) and they come not from the tape boxes but from the “recording sheet” that at the time of being filled in with the information, the sessions of the 26th and 27th were mixed out.
__________________________________________
Lastly, the jam "Glad All Over" included on CD 6 of improvisations is wrongly credited to Dave Clark and Mark Smith (song performed by "The Dave Clark Five"); however the version that John, Ringo and Klaus are interpreting is that of Carl Perkins, completely different and that was composed by Aaron Schroeder, Sid Tepper, and Roy Bennett. Copyright rights has gone the wrong way.
Last edited by mikec on Sat May 15, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rupert Pupkin
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by Rupert Pupkin »

amazing analysis a-la Sherlock Holmes mikec !

is the audio of the vinyl vs the CD set the same ? (besides the "typos" between the vinyl infos and CD set)
all audio tracks are the same ?
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by Alessandro Rocchi »

Thank you very much, Mike! :geek:
Ale.
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by mikec »

Rupert Pupkin wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:18 am amazing analysis a-la Sherlock Holmes mikec !

is the audio of the vinyl vs the CD set the same ? (besides the "typos" between the vinyl infos and CD set)
all audio tracks are the same ?
Thanks! I will have to check on the vinyl later or with other friends as I don't have in hand my turntable, so I cant listen vinyls anymore in the place I'm in now.
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by mikec »

Alessandro Rocchi wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:01 am Thank you very much, Mike! :geek:
Thank you very much Alessandro, glad to see you here my friend!
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by mikec »

for the friends wondering about the alternate POB tracks on Lennon Anthology and Signature Box Home Tapes CD, here are the correct numbers I've posted weeks ago on other places:

John Lennon Anthology
Working Class Hero (Take 1 / Studio Out-take) (it was believed to be Take 4)
God (Take 10- (acoustic guitar session Oct 7)/ Studio Out-take) (it was believed to be also Take 4)
I Found Out (Home Demo-edited)
Hold On (Jam/Improvisation between Takes 18 &19- fragment / Studio Out-take)
Isolation (Takes 21 (breakdown) & 22 / Studio Out-take)
Love (Take 9 / Studio Out-take)
Mother (Take 91 / Studio Out-take) (it was believed to be Take 90)
Remember (“Rehearsal 2”(fragment) + Take 1 / Studio Out-take)
Give Peace a Chance (Bed-In, -Rehearsal sequence)
Look at Me (Take 2 / Studio Out-take)
Long Lost John (Jam- recorded during ‘God acoustic session’ Oct 7)

John Lennon Signature Box
Mother (Take 94 w/extra guitar & before new vocal overdubs / Studio Out-take)
Love (Take 6 / Studio Out-take)
God (Take 23 recorded during ‘piano session 2’ / Studio Out-take) (it was believed to be Take 22)
I Found Out (Take 3 recorded Sept 27 + vocal and conga overdub Oct 7 / Studio Out-take)
Honey Don't (Jam- recorded during Yoko Ono’s POB session)
Isolation (Studio Demo)
Remember (Studio Demo)
I Don't Wanna Be a Soldier (Jam- recorded during ‘God piano session 2’ before Take 21)
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by WilliamShears »

This is pretty embarrassing that there would be this many problems with the identification of tracks. I would think if there was a doubt about certain dates - which is totally reasonable when dealing with 50 year old recordings that were never intended for release at the time - that they would identify and clarify that in the book. Instead they create more errors and it feels like a sloppy effort all around on an otherwise beautiful package.
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Re: PLASTIC ONO BAND 2021 BOX SET-THE NEW TRACKS

Post by Doug »

RE: Working Class Hero

Mike,
Could it be that the date on the session sheet was changed to the 27th because that's when the rough remixes were done, and the attribution of the recording session to that date at points in the book is simply because someone used the session sheet as their source?
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